Jesse Mulligan: “Sometimes when I read this stuff I get the sense that Russia are L-L-L-LOOKIN’ for trouble…” (Oct. 4, 2016)

5 October 2016 at 8:52 am

Jesse Mulligan: “Sometimes when I read this stuff I get
the sense that Russia are L-L-L-LOOKIN’ for trouble…”
RNZ National, Tuesday 4 October 2016, 4:47 p.m.
Jesse Mulligan, James Nokise, Chris Wikaira

Incredibly, RNZ’s sorry light chat show The Panel just keeps getting worse. I’m sorry to have to say that in his occasional hosting stints, comedian Jesse Mulligan has shown himself to be as ill-informed and smug as the regular host Jim Mora. The following farcical exchange was horrible to listen to, not only because of Mulligan’s abysmal ignorance—it’s obvious he has read virtually no “stuff” on Syria—but also because of Professor Gillespie’s mealy-mouthed performance. It seems he’s more concerned with avoiding a browbeating from his notorious right wing Waikato colleagues Ron Smith and Dov Bing than he is with informing the audience. The end effect of five minutes of Al Gillespie is similar to sitting through five minutes of a Donal Trump speech—you feel you’ve wasted your time, and you actually feel stupider at the end of it…..

JESSE MULLIGAN: So let’s move on as well, and we’ll go international now, with a look at the world with Al Gillespie. The United States has suspended Syrian ceasefire talks with Russia, and they made the call after frustrations with Moscow and its ability to live up to a ceasefire agreement. That announcement comes two weeks after the most recent attempt at a ceasefire fell apart, when a humanitarian aid convoy trying to reach besieged areas of rebel-held Aleppo was destroyed by an air strike. Al Gillespie of the University of Waikato joins us now. Al, hullo there, how ARE you today?

PROFESSOR AL GILLESPIE: Hey Jessie, I’m well. Thank you.

JESSE MULLIGAN: [extended intake of breath to convey how serious he is] Who do we believe: United States or Russia?

PROFESSOR AL GILLESPIE: Well, there’s two sides to it. The Americans said they’ll only go back into the talks if the Russians stop bombing Aleppo, and the Russians say they can only stop bombing Aleppo if the Americans distinguish between the moderate rebels and Al Qaeda, which is a legitimate target.

JESSE MULLIGAN: A-a-a-a-and is your understanding that the Russians have a POINT in that respect or do the United States deny it?

PROFESSOR AL GILLESPIE: I, uh, I, …[baffled world-weary sigh]… there’s no-o-o-o-o black and white any more in, in Syria, especially in Aleppo. And often the sides, some of those that are moderate and not meant to be targeted, blend with the ILLEGITIMATE, more religious extremists which CAN be targeted. It’s pretty hard to get a clear dividing line.

JESSE MULLIGAN: How bad news IS this, that talks have broken down between the U.S. and Russia?

PROFESSOR AL GILLESPIE: It’s very bad, I mean we can’t even get a ceasefire at the moment, so we can’t, you need a ceasefire before you can start talking about a peace plan. We need to be thinking that this conflict could go on for many years from here.

JESSE MULLIGAN: Why do ceasefires break down, Al, if uh, if no one enjoys war? [snickers nervously]

PROFESSOR AL GILLESPIE: There’s no trust on the ground. No one believes that it’s safe to bring in aid, water, or food, and so unless you can get the most basic modicum of trust, you can’t build up.

JESSE MULLIGAN: So how do you CREATE it?

PROFESSOR AL GILLESPIE: You get the teams, well you need two things. One, people have to get tired of fighting, and neither side has to believe that they can WIN. At the moment, there’s so much money, men, and ammunition going into the fight, both sides believe that they still have the upper hand. And then you need to have confidence-building measures, and right now they can’t even achieve THAT.

JESSE MULLIGAN: [speaking very slowly, to convey thoughtfulness] Sometimes when I read this stuff I get the sense that Russia are L-L-L-LOOKIN’ for trouble, are L-L-L-LOOKIN’ to create tension with the U.S. Is that fair?

….Long pause….

PROFESSOR AL GILLESPIE: [slowly, deliberately, to convey deep thinking] Ahhhhhmmm, partly, partly not. I mean, Russia’s there by a treaty it had with Syria from the early 1970s, a legitimate treaty for a defensive alliance, and Assad is still to a degree in power, so Russia’s doing what it was bound to do by treaty. The problem is, that at some point, as long as you’re propping up these sides the war will continue and you may have to, everyone just back out and see what the actual outcome is.

….Long pause…

JESSE MULLIGAN: Meanwhile, there’s this OTHER story around today, that Russia have walked away from the protocol on weapons-grade plutonium control. Can you give us a bit of background to that, Al?

PROFESSOR AL GILLESPIE: Certainly. So the nuclear arms treaty’s like a collection of documents which regulate nuclear weapons. One of the protocols was about the reduction of plutonium, surplus plutonium, so it would not be diverted to create more nuclear warheads. The Russians have suspended their talks in this protocol exactly the same day as the Americans suspended their talks about the ceasefire in Syria. It’s a blow to nuclear arms control, it’s not MASSIVE, but it’s certainly starting to wobble the architecture.

…Long pause…

JESSE MULLIGAN: And once AGA-A-AIN, if we look at both parties, do both parties have some culpability here, or is it the Russians MAKING TROUBLE?

PROFESSOR AL GILLESPIE: U-u-u-u-u-ummm, both parties have some —the Russians are saying that they can’t trust the Americans with the technology that they’re using to turn their plutonium into a safe form of nuclear material, and the Americans are saying that if they work together they can come to a compromise. So there’s good and bad on both sides.

JESSE MULLIGAN: Mmmm-kay. Finally today, the Colombian peace deal veto. You better give us some background to this as well, Al, it’ll be the first time a lot of people have HEARD about this….

…ad nauseam…

Anyone wishing to, unlike Jesse Mulligan, do some serious study of what is happening in Syria, should bypass the likes of Al Gillespie and read or listen to someone who knows what he’s talking about. There is no one better on this than Noam Chomsky….
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/5/17/noam_chomsky_on_syria_conflict_cut

• Adrian Thornton5.1

  5 October 2016 at 9:39 am

  Typical of the relentless dumbing down of National radio, it drives me fucking crazy.
  I have emailed 9-noon a number of times the about pointlessness of having that private prison loving centrist Mike Williams on the voices from the right and left on Mondays, what a complete waste of time, he more often than not ends up agreeing tacitly with Hooten’s position, and why wouldn’t he, they are basically two sides of the same coin….don’t get me started.
  • Morrissey5.1.1

    5 October 2016 at 10:30 am

    Williams doesn’t “tacitly” agree with Hooton, Adrian, he makes a point of saying “I agree with Matthew” several times in every show, almost as often as he chortles along with Hooton whenever a politician like Jeremy Corbyn is mentioned.

    Maybe he learned to ingratiate himself with superior personalities when he was a high school classmate of Paul Holmes.
    • Adrian Thornton5.1.1.1

      5 October 2016 at 11:29 am

      I know I was trying to be diplomatic, I have also replied to quite a few of Williams opinion pieces in the Hawks Bay today, however our local newspaper isn’t that interested in community conversation so only publish comments spasmodically.
      I can’t understand RNZ’s logic of not actually having a hard hitting left intellectual on the show to challenge Hooton, and spark real debate. Surely even from their own rating perspective that must make sense?
      • Morrissey5.1.1.1.1

        5 October 2016 at 11:45 am

        They have occasionally put decent opponents up against Hooton, much to his evident discomfort. Laila Harré never let him get away with anything, and Andrew Campbell stymied him regularly.

        I’m sure the RNZ National management had a role in getting rid of those difficult people and replacing them with patsies like Williams.

        Ratings aren’t important: conformity is all that matters.
  • Adrian5.1.2

    5 October 2016 at 11:10 am

    Thanks Adrian for sorting out thre ” 2 Adrians ” thing.
• Wensleydale5.2

  5 October 2016 at 1:05 pm

  JESSE MULLIGAN: Why do ceasefires break down, Al, if uh, if no one enjoys war? [snickers nervously]

  That alone should get him thrown out of a window. I mean, does he come to work drunk or something?
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