There is potential for referees to be sued at the World Cup
Bret Harris
From: The Australian
August 24, 2011 12:00AM
From: The Australian
August 24, 2011 12:00AM
RUGBY officials will be in danger of being sued if the referee's
negligence that denied the All Blacks a try against the Springboks in
their 18-5 loss in Port Elizabeth last Sunday was repeated at the World Cup.
negligence that denied the All Blacks a try against the Springboks in
their 18-5 loss in Port Elizabeth last Sunday was repeated at the World Cup.
Early in the second half, All Blacks fullback Israel Dagg made a 45m
break, but was caught just short of the line. He popped a pass up to
halfback Jimmy Cowan, who crossed over in the corner.
break, but was caught just short of the line. He popped a pass up to
halfback Jimmy Cowan, who crossed over in the corner.
But Irish referee George Clancy, who has been assigned to the World Cup,
consulted television match official Johan Meuswesen on whether Dagg's
pass was forward. He ruled it was and the try was disallowed.
consulted television match official Johan Meuswesen on whether Dagg's
pass was forward. He ruled it was and the try was disallowed.
It seemed the correct decision, but under IRB regulations the TMO can
rule only on what occurs in-goal, not in the field of play.
rule only on what occurs in-goal, not in the field of play.
Unlike the infamous forward pass that English referee Wayne Barnes
missed in the All Blacks' loss to France in the quarter-final of the
2007 World Cup, Clancy's decision to go to the TMO was outside the laws
of the game.
missed in the All Blacks' loss to France in the quarter-final of the
2007 World Cup, Clancy's decision to go to the TMO was outside the laws
of the game.
Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
Related Coverage
Related Coverage
THE GRILL: Deans opens up Courier Mail, 11 hours ago
All Blacks OK with disallowed try NEWS.com.au, 2 days ago
All Blacks denied by TMO call FoxSports, 3 days ago
Injured ref rested before World Cup Adelaide Now, 3 Aug 2011
SANZAR exploring video options FoxSports, 6 Jun 2011
All Blacks OK with disallowed try NEWS.com.au, 2 days ago
All Blacks denied by TMO call FoxSports, 3 days ago
Injured ref rested before World Cup Adelaide Now, 3 Aug 2011
SANZAR exploring video options FoxSports, 6 Jun 2011
End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
As a result, sports lawyer John Mullins believes the All Blacks would
have been entitled to take legal action over the wrong decision.
have been entitled to take legal action over the wrong decision.
"You could potentially sue someone," Mullins said.
"To do that would be to destroy a cornerstone of sport, which is you
have to accept the referee's decision.
have to accept the referee's decision.
"It's hard to believe a national sporting body would bring an action,
but would a coach who gets sacked? It's quite possible.
but would a coach who gets sacked? It's quite possible.
"The referee and the TMO wrongfully applied the rules of the game.
"It's the same thing as the scorer giving a team four points instead of
three for a penalty goal."
three for a penalty goal."
At the very least, Mullins argued that a team could successfully appeal
to have a decision overturned in a tournament such as the World Cup.
to have a decision overturned in a tournament such as the World Cup.
"If the TMO ruled a forward pass and disallowed a try in the last play
of a game, could you appeal against the decision?" Mullins said. "I
suspect you can.
of a game, could you appeal against the decision?" Mullins said. "I
suspect you can.
"If two teams were tied at the end of the pool stage and a try made a
difference in determining who advanced, potentially, you could bring an
action immediately for an order to determine which team should properly
progress in the tournament.
difference in determining who advanced, potentially, you could bring an
action immediately for an order to determine which team should properly
progress in the tournament.
"If a team got knocked out of the quarter-finals because of a wrong
application of the rules, do you think they would take it?
application of the rules, do you think they would take it?
"I think they would appeal as this is a tournament."
The All Blacks lost the Test 18-5, but coach Graham Henry was not
critical of the TMO for disallowing Cowan's try.
critical of the TMO for disallowing Cowan's try.
Henry argued that if the match officials believed the pass was forward,
then the try should not have been allowed.
then the try should not have been allowed.
But SANZAR referees manager Lyndon Bray said officials had no choice but
to abide by the laws of the game.
to abide by the laws of the game.
"Plain and simple, it was an unfortunate example of a referee and a TMO
going outside the protocol," Bray said.
going outside the protocol," Bray said.
"The IRB made a decision on what the TMO can rule on.
"There's no point having a protocol if we don't follow it.
"There is a point of view that the decision was right and that the end
justifies the means.
justifies the means.
"That's a flawed argument. If that's the case, we are inconsistent.
"Until the IRB decides the TMO can rule on more, we are not in a
position to decide what's OK and what's not.
position to decide what's OK and what's not.
"The referee and the TMO would have been dealt with by Paddy O'Brien
(IRB referees manager). Paddy has made it clear he is unhappy.
(IRB referees manager). Paddy has made it clear he is unhappy.
"It's very timely leading up to the World Cup. Referees have to get
their heads around the fact that it won't be acceptable.
their heads around the fact that it won't be acceptable.
"If they go outside the protocols, they'll be in trouble."
Click here to Reply
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- show quoted text -
What a pity Andre Watson was not sued after he destroyed the World Cup
final in 1999.
final in 1999.
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On 24/08/2011 12:11 PM, Morrissey Breen wrote:
> What a pity Andre Watson was not sued after he destroyed the World Cup
> final in 1999.
Isn't it though? And that blind ignorant Jock git Jim Fleming in the
semi-final. They should both have been sued and banned from refereeing
in perpetuity for allowing those cowardly, cheating, filthy
cheese-eating surrender monkeys to get away with constant gutless filth
off the ball.
semi-final. They should both have been sued and banned from refereeing
in perpetuity for allowing those cowardly, cheating, filthy
cheese-eating surrender monkeys to get away with constant gutless filth
off the ball.
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- show quoted text -
There's a possibility it'll be thrown out of court in less than one
minute as well....
minute as well....
8/24/11
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- show quoted text -
The French dominated the All Blacks completely in the semifinal, right
from the kickoff. The intimidation and constant infringing to put the
All Blacks off their game was a deliberate and cynical tactic, and the
French paid for that by conceding penalty after penalty---the only
thing that kept the All Blacks in the game at all.
from the kickoff. The intimidation and constant infringing to put the
All Blacks off their game was a deliberate and cynical tactic, and the
French paid for that by conceding penalty after penalty---the only
thing that kept the All Blacks in the game at all.
No one with a lick of sense would suggest that Fleming deliberately
hampered the All Blacks. They were clearly outplayed.
hampered the All Blacks. They were clearly outplayed.
In the final, Watson robbed France of two tries in the first half. The
New Zealand commentary team repeatedly expressed their sense of
disturbance at Watson's rulings.
New Zealand commentary team repeatedly expressed their sense of
disturbance at Watson's rulings.
Watch it again, "Caspar"----this time without the distortion of the
alcoholic miasma.
alcoholic miasma.
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- show quoted text -
The only thing that could have stopped France that day was a referee
determined to stop them playing football. As was the case in the final
six days later.
determined to stop them playing football. As was the case in the final
six days later.
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- show quoted text -
More difficult to do when lying on the ground nursing gouged eyes and
bruised testicles.
bruised testicles.
Why we ever saved the unwashed, garlic-munching bludgers from the Nazis
I have no idea. The Gestapo was too good for them!
I have no idea. The Gestapo was too good for them!
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- show quoted text -
"Oooh ooh, my name ith Mowithey! Any Frenchman who wantth my arth ith
welcome to it! Pleath! Now! Oooh la la!"
welcome to it! Pleath! Now! Oooh la la!"
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On 25/08/2011 2:45 AM, Morrissey Breen wrote:
Mowithey, I've told you before! No talking about rugby! Stick to
subjects you knw something about, like talkback radio, the NZ welfare
system, and paedophilia.
Mowithey, I've told you before! No talking about rugby! Stick to
subjects you knw something about, like talkback radio, the NZ welfare
system, and paedophilia.
8/25/11
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8/25/11
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- show quoted text -
Its been some time since I watched any part of that game but what I
remember as a neutral that was rooting for NZ was
* NZ had the game sewn up. Looked like it was going to be slaughter
* Then NZ let the Frenchies back into the game via some drop goals and
penalties.
* Then France played some amazing rugby running the ball from all over
and scoring some beautiful tries
remember as a neutral that was rooting for NZ was
* NZ had the game sewn up. Looked like it was going to be slaughter
* Then NZ let the Frenchies back into the game via some drop goals and
penalties.
* Then France played some amazing rugby running the ball from all over
and scoring some beautiful tries
The tragedy for me was that we did not pick a fit again Henry Honiball
at flyhalf for our semi.
If only... But we didn't and we lost
at flyhalf for our semi.
If only... But we didn't and we lost
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On Aug 25, 7:20 pm, Dave <david.baker...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 25, 3:19 am, caspar milquetoast <b...@comswest.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 24/08/2011 4:35 PM, Dave wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 24, 7:09 am, caspar milquetoast<b...@comswest.net.
> > >> On 24/08/2011 12:11 PM, Morrissey Breen wrote:
>
> > >>> What a pity Andre Watson was not sued after he destroyed the World Cup
> > >>> final in 1999.
>
> > >> Isn't it though? And that blind ignorant Jock git Jim Fleming in the
> > >> semi-final. They should both have been sued and banned from refereeing
> > >> in perpetuity for allowing those cowardly, cheating, filthy
> > >> cheese-eating surrender monkeys to get away with constant gutless filth
> > >> off the ball.
>
> > > Maybe it would have been easier if the ABs had just tackled those
> > > Frenchies breaching their line?
>
> > More difficult to do when lying on the ground nursing gouged eyes and
> > bruised testicles.
>
> > Why we ever saved the unwashed, garlic-munching bludgers from the Nazis
> > I have no idea. The Gestapo was too good for them!
>
> Its been some time since I watched any part of that game but what I
> remember as a neutral that was rooting for NZ was
> * NZ had the game sewn up.
> On Aug 25, 3:19 am, caspar milquetoast <b...@comswest.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 24/08/2011 4:35 PM, Dave wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 24, 7:09 am, caspar milquetoast<b...@comswest.net.
> > >> On 24/08/2011 12:11 PM, Morrissey Breen wrote:
>
> > >>> What a pity Andre Watson was not sued after he destroyed the World Cup
> > >>> final in 1999.
>
> > >> Isn't it though? And that blind ignorant Jock git Jim Fleming in the
> > >> semi-final. They should both have been sued and banned from refereeing
> > >> in perpetuity for allowing those cowardly, cheating, filthy
> > >> cheese-eating surrender monkeys to get away with constant gutless filth
> > >> off the ball.
>
> > > Maybe it would have been easier if the ABs had just tackled those
> > > Frenchies breaching their line?
>
> > More difficult to do when lying on the ground nursing gouged eyes and
> > bruised testicles.
>
> > Why we ever saved the unwashed, garlic-munching bludgers from the Nazis
> > I have no idea. The Gestapo was too good for them!
>
> Its been some time since I watched any part of that game but what I
> remember as a neutral that was rooting for NZ was
> * NZ had the game sewn up.
When did you watch the game, I wonder? France dominated from the
opening whistle. Did you see Lamaison's try? To anyone familiar with
French football, it was obvious that the Tricolors had rediscovered
the combination of power, fluency and speed that renders France simply
unbeatable. Yes, even by the All blacks. You say "NZ had the game sewn
up", but you cannot be serious. Only on the scoreboard did New Zealand
lead---to anyone who knows the game, however, that lead wasn't going
to last long. It was as safe as that 8-0 lead Angola raced out to
against the Dream Team in the Barcelona Olympics.
opening whistle. Did you see Lamaison's try? To anyone familiar with
French football, it was obvious that the Tricolors had rediscovered
the combination of power, fluency and speed that renders France simply
unbeatable. Yes, even by the All blacks. You say "NZ had the game sewn
up", but you cannot be serious. Only on the scoreboard did New Zealand
lead---to anyone who knows the game, however, that lead wasn't going
to last long. It was as safe as that 8-0 lead Angola raced out to
against the Dream Team in the Barcelona Olympics.
It was clear to any intelligent observer of the 1999 semi-final which
team was utterly dominant. That's why during the halftime comments on
New Zealand television, an ashen-faced Grant Fox snarled that the
French were "barbaric". He obviously was hoping that Tournaire and two
or three others would be sinbinned or sent off---there was no other
way New Zealand was going to get back into the game. The second
magnificent try by Lomu, extending the lead to 24-10, was only a cruel
delaying of the inevitable.
team was utterly dominant. That's why during the halftime comments on
New Zealand television, an ashen-faced Grant Fox snarled that the
French were "barbaric". He obviously was hoping that Tournaire and two
or three others would be sinbinned or sent off---there was no other
way New Zealand was going to get back into the game. The second
magnificent try by Lomu, extending the lead to 24-10, was only a cruel
delaying of the inevitable.
>
> Looked like it was going to be slaughter
> Looked like it was going to be slaughter
No it didn't. Watch the game again. Or for the first time, perhaps.
>
> * Then NZ let the Frenchies back into the game via some drop goals and
> penalties.
> * Then NZ let the Frenchies back into the game via some drop goals and
> penalties.
The All Blacks did not "let the Frenchies back into the game"---France
dominated from the beginning of the match.
dominated from the beginning of the match.
>
> * Then France played some amazing rugby running the ball from all over
> and scoring some beautiful tries
> * Then France played some amazing rugby running the ball from all over
> and scoring some beautiful tries
Their most spectacular try was their first. It was clear that they
would win after that try. The All Blacks felt it---and so did Grant
Fox, suffering in that television studio back in Auckland.
would win after that try. The All Blacks felt it---and so did Grant
Fox, suffering in that television studio back in Auckland.
>
> The tragedy for me was that we did not pick a fit again Henry Honiball
> at flyhalf for our semi.
> If only... But we didn't and we lost
> The tragedy for me was that we did not pick a fit again Henry Honiball
> at flyhalf for our semi.
> If only... But we didn't and we lost
It's an interesting thought experiment: if South Africa HAD won its
semi-final, then Andre Watson would not have refereed the final. What
a match we might have been privileged to see then!
semi-final, then Andre Watson would not have refereed the final. What
a match we might have been privileged to see then!
You say it's some time since you watched any part of that game. Your
comments make me wonder if you actually watched it at all.
comments make me wonder if you actually watched it at all.
|
On 25/08/2011 3:20 PM, Dave wrote:
> Its been some time since I watched any part of that game but what I
> remember as a neutral that was rooting for NZ was
> * NZ had the game sewn up. Looked like it was going to be slaughter
> * Then NZ let the Frenchies back into the game via some drop goals and
> penalties.
> * Then France played some amazing rugby running the ball from all over
> and scoring some beautiful tries
>
> The tragedy for me was that we did not pick a fit again Henry Honiball
> at flyhalf for our semi.
> If only... But we didn't and we lost
> remember as a neutral that was rooting for NZ was
> * NZ had the game sewn up. Looked like it was going to be slaughter
> * Then NZ let the Frenchies back into the game via some drop goals and
> penalties.
> * Then France played some amazing rugby running the ball from all over
> and scoring some beautiful tries
>
> The tragedy for me was that we did not pick a fit again Henry Honiball
> at flyhalf for our semi.
> If only... But we didn't and we lost
The French did play exceptionally well in parts. They do that sometimes.
The All Blacks were also playing well and on course for a solid win. The
French decided to do something about it. They did what French rugby has
been renowned for for a century. They piled in the filth as only the
French can. Eye gouging, bag snatching, a bit of judicious kicking of a
player on the ground. It's as French as running in exotic tries from
behind your own goal line. Anyone who has ever played there can tell you
all about it.
French decided to do something about it. They did what French rugby has
been renowned for for a century. They piled in the filth as only the
French can. Eye gouging, bag snatching, a bit of judicious kicking of a
player on the ground. It's as French as running in exotic tries from
behind your own goal line. Anyone who has ever played there can tell you
all about it.
In days of yore when real men wore black, an almighty punch-up would
have been on the cards. The French would have done what they do best,
and surrendered.
have been on the cards. The French would have done what they do best,
and surrendered.
But not this time. The oily Mr Hart had given specific instructions that
those bad old days were gone and in this sleek new era of professional
rugby, the players would not resort to retaliation but let the vigilant
and resourceful gentlemen of the refereeing fraternity fairly and
equitably enforce the rules of the game.
those bad old days were gone and in this sleek new era of professional
rugby, the players would not resort to retaliation but let the vigilant
and resourceful gentlemen of the refereeing fraternity fairly and
equitably enforce the rules of the game.
Except that was total and absolute bollocks as anyone with half a brain
could have told him.
could have told him.
The blind, ignorant Jock git with the whistle blithely pretended nothing
untoward was happening despite the All Black captain's repeated
protests, and the French had a field day.
untoward was happening despite the All Black captain's repeated
protests, and the French had a field day.
To their eternal shame, the All Blacks rolled over. They let the French
treat them as a doormat. They got rattled, they made foolish errors,
they were all over the place like Mowithey's shit, and that was the game.
treat them as a doormat. They got rattled, they made foolish errors,
they were all over the place like Mowithey's shit, and that was the game.
I don't blame the French. They're French, they can't help it. I don't
even blame the myopic haggis-munching moron with the whistle. Referees
ruin all sorts of games. You work around it.
even blame the myopic haggis-munching moron with the whistle. Referees
ruin all sorts of games. You work around it.
I blame the All Blacks. Never in the long and proud annals of this great
rugby nation has such a gormless, gutless surrender been witnessed in
abject horror by their shamed and betrayed supporters.
rugby nation has such a gormless, gutless surrender been witnessed in
abject horror by their shamed and betrayed supporters.
A dark, dark day in NZ rugby history and one I sincerely hope never to
see repeated.
see repeated.
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- show quoted text -
I don't think you've ever actually watched that match, buddy. Or were
you drunk at the time?
you drunk at the time?
|
On 26/08/2011 6:17 PM, empedocles economopolis wrote:
> I don't think you've ever actually watched that match, buddy. Or were
> you drunk at the time?
I won't tell you again Mowithey -- don't talk about rugby! Off to alt.
fat.gay.losers and have a chat about bottom waxing. Go on, off you go.
fat.gay.losers and have a chat about bottom waxing. Go on, off you go.
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