Tuesday 9 January 2018

Don Brash’s incredible ignorance (Apr. 12, 2014)

12 April 2014 at 9:09 am
Don Brash’s incredible ignorance
Radio NZ National, Saturday 12 April 2014
That silly old goat Don Brash has a book to sell: it’s called Incredible Luck. Earlier this week, on Jim Mora’s Panel show, Michelle Boag claimed, preposterously, that Brash was “incredibly honest”, and “the most honest politician New Zealand had ever seen.” She repeated that silly lie—“Brash is honest”—at least ten times. Her fellow Panelists, Brian (“Boag’s Bitch”) Edwards and host Jim Mora did not even so much as demur as Boag raved on about the superlative qualities of her good friend. In fact, Mora asked, in apparent high seriousness: “WHY is he so honest?”
This morning I listened, in ever mounting horror, to Brash being interviewed by Kim Hill, who struggled throughout to conceal her disdain for the old bigot. Amongst all the other nonsense, there was one thing above all else that the old racist said that highlighted the poverty of his “thinking”. I sent off an urgent email to Kim Hill….
Incredible Stupidity
Dear Kim,
So, according to Don Brash, Māori “didn’t have a written language”, they “worshipped rocks and stones”, they “didn’t invent the wheel” and were “a primitive stone-age people”. Those are inflammatory, ignorant statements of the type that one might hear on a particularly dire talkback radio show in the small hours of the morning.
He clearly knows next to nothing about Māori culture, and he hasn’t the slightest interest in learning about it.
Brash is more than an embarrassment; he’s a national disgrace.
Yours in disgust,
Morrissey Breen
Northcote Point
  • Te Reo Putake5.1
    12 April 2014 at 9:17 am
    Cheers, Moz. Just for the record, Edwards did point out that a serial marital cheater can’t be considered honest.
    Re: your email, aren’t the first 3 of Brash’s claim actually facts, even if delivered in a facetious manner by Orewa Man? Happy to be corrected, it’s not an area in which I can claim any expertise.
    • Lanthanide5.1.1
      12 April 2014 at 9:25 am
      All 4 of them are actually facts. It’s not Brash’s fault that the vast audience hearing these statements thinks they’re racist.
      These sorts of statements are usually made by people trying to be racist and divisive, so people hearing them assume that anyone speaking them must be racist. That’s really not the case for Brash, I don’t think.
      • Morrissey5.1.1.1
        12 April 2014 at 9:34 am
        Yes, they are facts. It’s also a fact that ancient Britons were animists and didn’t have a written language. And it wasn’t an ancient Briton that invented the wheel. Does that mean that British culture is less valuable than other cultures?
        According to the cutting intellect that is Don Brash, that is exactly what it means.
                • vto5.1.1.1.1
                  12 April 2014 at 9:36 am
                  Morrisey you will need to show where Brash placed a lower value on maori culture. For credibility purposes of course.
                  • Morrissey5.1.1.1.1.1
                    12 April 2014 at 9:37 am
                    He actually SAID it, when Kim Hill pursued him on that very point. Listen to the tape.
                  • Lanthanide5.1.1.1.1.2
                    12 April 2014 at 9:47 am
                    You are of course correct, vto. Having not heard the interview myself, all I can rely on is Morrissey’s email. But as we all know, Morrissey routinely takes things out of context and has trouble separating his imaginings of what was said vs what was actually said, so it’s impossible to know why Brash was bringing these points up and what point he was trying to make in doing so.
                    As it stands, they are facts.
            • greywarbler5.1.2
              12 April 2014 at 9:27 am
              Good points TRP but you are attempting to interfere with the fluid flow of a good tirade. It’s the way it sounds that’s important, not every little detail, so we shouldn’t be picky about facts, they spoil the effect.
            • Morrissey5.1.3
              12 April 2014 at 9:35 am
              You’re correct, Te Reo. It’s not the facts, but Brash’s spin on those facts that is offensive.
              • Te Reo Putake5.1.3.1
                12 April 2014 at 9:53 am
                Fair call, Moz.
                I think the fourth point (stone age) isn’t factually correct anyway. Maori society was well along the usual continuum in terms of cooperation, agriculture etc. The use of stone tools has more to do with what resources were available in aotearoa, rather than as a marker of development.
                • Lanthanide5.1.3.1.1
                  12 April 2014 at 10:00 am
                  Good point on the stone age thing, although I think you need to be a bit broader: it’s a reflection of the resources available within the pacific as well as Aotearoa.
                  It took Europeans (and other cultures) thousands of years to move beyond stone, and Maori certainly weren’t in Aoteroa for that long, and their antecedents in the pacific simply didn’t have the resources available.
          • vto5.2
            12 April 2014 at 9:17 am
            Yeah, and don’t forget that Brash is also just an old white male too.
            Let all the bigots out ….
          • marty mars5.3
            12 April 2014 at 10:56 am
            Good one moz
            ‘didn’t have a written language’ yet somehow could remember the multiple strands of whakapapa for numerous generations, the uses of materials and plants and so on. And could convey that information between generations.
            ‘worsphipped rocks and stones’ yes so unlike worshipping a dude on a cross that lived in the middle east.
            ‘didn’t invent the wheel’ yet used wheels such as logs for rolling waka into the water and so on but no axle or cart – wouldn’t be too easy to move them around this land now would it.
            ‘primitive stone-age people’ who lived within the boundaries of sustainability, caring for nature and a sophisticated social interaction system used as a model by some today.
            So yes all facts from brash but in the way they are used they are supposed to show the inferiority of tangata whenua and the superiority of those that arrived here later.
            • The Al1en5.3.1
              12 April 2014 at 11:17 am
              Stone age warriors to once were warriors with the internet.
              Progress, you just got to love it 😉
              • marty mars5.3.1.1
                12 April 2014 at 11:19 am
                What’s your point allen?
                • The Al1en5.3.1.1.1
                  12 April 2014 at 11:27 am
                  Just a bit of a lol at your expense getting all precious, but more as in to say no need to make spurious argument to counter what a silly old tory man says, and start worrying about Hone selling his/your mana for .com’s beads and blankets this weekend.
                  • marty mars5.3.1.1.1.1
                    12 April 2014 at 11:32 am
                    Oh english humor – how droll and excruciatingly boring.
                    Don’t worry about Hone and Mana – everything is sweet there mate very sweet indeed. Best you watch out for pox ridden blankets that might come your (political) way eh.
                    • The Al1en…
                      12 April 2014 at 11:43 am
                      Bless you for getting butt hurt, but worry not, every one has standards, maybe that’s why you have two. 😉
                      Now write something about anglo saxons, or normans, or romans or celts and make me cry like a baby 😆
                      .
                      • marty mars…
                        12 April 2014 at 11:48 am
                        ‘butt hurt’? Oh dear that was a flop.
                        I don’t have two standards allen just one very clear one but please don’t let that stop your roll of lols.
                        I don’t want you to cry allen – man you are projecting this morning – too many weetbix perhaps?
                  • bad125.3.1.1.1.2
                    12 April 2014 at 12:05 pm
                    There are no worries about Hone ‘selling’ anything, the alliance being proposed does not require the Mana Party to alter any of its policies and i would suggest the same will be the case for the Internet Party…
            • felix5.3.2
              12 April 2014 at 5:25 pm
              I don’t think he said maori “worshiped rocks and stones”. He did say maori were animist in religion and ascribed spiritual value to rivers.
              The “worshiped rocks and stones” bit is Morrissey’s invention, but I gotta say three out of four ain’t too bad for Mozza.
          • Saarbo5.4
            12 April 2014 at 11:55 am
            Well done Morrissey, that response from Brash was sickening and highlighted the enormous ignorance and social ineptness of the man. Very strange man, they seem to gravitate towards Act…and National.
        2. JanM6
          12 April 2014 at 9:20 am
          He’s just another boring old fart, really – full of crap and with a hugely over-inflated sense of his own importance, What gets me exercised is how these silly old twits gain such traction politically. It’s fairly depressing when you think about it
          • vto6.1
            12 April 2014 at 9:25 am
            Yeah but I gotta tell you something JanM – have you ever listened for any length of time to anyone aged under 30 about any serious subject?
            Sheeeesh ……..
            Honestly, dumb-arse young people, they just don’t have the experience in life or the developed mind and soul, to be worth listening to. That is a fact.
            • Disraeli Gladstone6.1.1
              12 April 2014 at 9:49 am
              Weren’t you telling Eleanor Catton off for being a bigot a few weeks ago? And now you’re just gone and said all young people aren’t worth listening to. What a terribly close-minded view. I listen to some young people and they’re far more insightful and intelligent than a lot of people my age.
              • vto6.1.1.1
                12 April 2014 at 9:57 am
                Yes I was doing that and we had a bit of an exchange over it disraeli. My post immediately above was, I thought, clearly tongue-in-cheek and written in order to expose the bigotry shown by JanM. That was the purpose. To hold a mirror to her.
                Curiously, JanM’s bigotry is eerily similar to Eleanor Cattons. It is common in NZ – bigotry against the aged. Others with a similar penchant include Michelle A’Court and Beck Eleven, two women with something against old white males.
                Not only is it bigotry, it is also foolish. In my experience those with the most years typically exhibit a wisdom far more advanced than people with less wrinkles. (and of course the young are worth listening to – to understand their concerns and thoughts. Less so for solutions though, imo)
                • BM6.1.1.1.1
                  12 April 2014 at 10:00 am
                  Yeah, Like all the oldies who vote for Winston Peters. 🙄
                  • vto6.1.1.1.1.1
                    12 April 2014 at 10:06 am
                    I did say “typically”, not “always”.
                    But look, if the older are not worth listening to and the younger are also not worth listening to then clearly age is not an issue ………. which was the point of my point! Age should be left out of these things. But it is difficult to wean people from their bigotries.
                    It is like the erosion of a riverbank, is bigotry, bit by bit, crumble by crumble, swing by swing of the river, until one day the landscape formed by the river is very different from what it was in the past.
                        • JanM6.1.1.1.2
                          12 April 2014 at 10:19 am
                          Ok, vto – perfectly happy just to call him a ‘boring fart’ and a ‘twit’ and leave the ‘old’ out of it. Jamie Lee Ross on Native Affairs this week managed to provide clear evidence that indeed the young can be boring farts and twits too.
                          I think in part we emphasise the age thing because there is an idea that with age comes wisdom. However, in my experience (and I am nearly the same age as Don Brash, by the way) most of the time a silly young thing grows into a silly old thing.
                        • Disraeli Gladstone6.1.1.1.3
                          12 April 2014 at 10:42 am
                          There are clever old people and stupid young people. There are clever young people and stupid old people. I agree. Age shouldn’t come into it. However, I actually don’t think that last paragraph of yours is true at all. For instance, a recent US survey showed that young Americans were twice as likely than older Americans to know where the Ukraine is.
                          Famously, IQ has risen for the last thirty years. Now, IQ is no real marker of intelligence or wisdom, true, but it does show that each generation seems to be more switched on than the last.
                          By suggesting that older people are “far more” advance than young people with wisdom against evidence to the contrary does exhibit an actual discrimination on age. The exact thing you were trying to reflect on someone else.
                          • vto6.1.1.1.3.1
                            12 April 2014 at 10:51 am
                            hang on there, you are tripping yourself up. You confuse facts (where is Ukraine) with wisdom. That patently does not follow. I know a 10 year old who knows more about cellphones than I. On your reasoning that makes him wiser in all things …………..
                            And then you acknowledge that IQ does not equate with wisdom either, but then immediately claim that higher IQs (and particular knowledge) are evidence of greater wisdom.
                            You are all at sea Mr Gladstone.
                            • JanM…
                              12 April 2014 at 11:23 am
                              What we call ‘wisdom’ is emotional intelligence (EQ) and is easily as important as intellect, although rather undervalued and infrequently assessed.
                              I agree that the knowledge of facts is fairly meaningless in itself, although a more in-depth evaluation of those youngsters may indicate that a knowledge of where the Ukraine is may also involve greater awareness of the world order, which would not be a bad thing considering the undue influence that America wields
                            • Disraeli Gladstone…
                              12 April 2014 at 12:01 pm
                              We can’t really measure “wisdom” it’s an intangible buzzword. We can’t really measure intelligence either (those IQ does at provide a slight attempt). What we do see is that young people seem more aware of the wider world and are seem to have higher average IQs.
                              Also, agnosticism and atheism rise the further you get away from the older sections of society.
                              All signs of a generation that are just as attentive and intelligent as older people. Now, does that make them as wise? I’d say yeah, sure. You might say no. I’m basing my opinion on the above, that they seem aware of the wider world, they seem intelligent, they seem to challenge opinion and make their own decisions based on research.
                              What are you basing your opinion on that older people are “far more advanced” than younger people in terms of wisdom?
                              • vto…
                                12 April 2014 at 12:16 pm
                                Too many years on the planet, that’s what. And that for ‘wisdom’, experience and time is one of the main drivers imo and that simply doesn’t exist when there is a lack of that experience and time.
                                But yes, I agree that the oncoming generations will be very interesting to watch as to how they deal with life’s turmoils and testings. They already have a different approach to many things, compared to generations recent. They revert less to the older generations than past ones, and seem more than happy to carve their own path and find their own feet.
                                One problem is, I guess, that time and history is well worn and proven. Will the next couple generations really be superior in these areas to those past? History suggests not, but it has been on my mind that it will be interesting to see…..
                              • felix…
                                12 April 2014 at 7:37 pm
                                “We can’t really measure “wisdom” it’s an intangible buzzword.”
                                Just because you can’t measure it doesn’t mean I don’t know it when I see it.
                      • The Al1en6.1.1.2
                        12 April 2014 at 10:02 am
                        Indeed, some young people are surprisingly switched on, though I wouldn’t give 16 year olds the vote like the snp have in jockland in order to win the yes independence vote.
                    • JanM6.1.2
                      12 April 2014 at 9:51 am
                      Goodness, vto – you obviously mix with the wrong people!
                    • miravox3.1.1.1
                      12 April 2014 at 10:57 am
                      maaaaaries… yeah, well, they’re not “mainstream” either…
                      Just a reminder of from No Right Turn of what Brash was willing to campaign on in 2005. Mr Bl**dy principled … a social liberal, he called himself.
                      Morning Report:
                      PRESENTER: Okay. Let’s have a look at some of the other things you said over the weekend. You talked about mainstream New Zealand. What does that mean precisely?
                      BRASH: It means the large number of New Zealanders whom this Government has neglected for the last six years. This Government has been trying to work hard for minority groups, small parts of the community…
                      PRESENTER: Which minority groups, which minority groups are we talking about?
                      BRASH: Well we know, for example, that the Government has been funding Maori programmes more generously than non-Maori programmes…
                      So if you’re Maori, you’re not a “mainstream” (meaning “real”) New Zealander in Dr Brash’s eyes. But it doesn’t stop there:
                      PRESENTER: Okay. So Maori is one of the minority groups. What other minority groups?
                      BRASH: Well we know also that Government has been focusing on prostitution legislation, civil union legislation, all that kind of stuff, which caters for a small minority of people, while neglecting…
                      In other words, this is about social liberalism, “political correctness”, Labour’s efforts to expand opportunity and erode privilege, and ensure that every New Zealander is treated fairly and equally, regardless of race, gender, or sexual orientation. But its clear that Brash doesn’t agree with that struggle, because he doesn’t see gays as real New Zealanders:
                      PRESENTER: No, I just want to pick up on something else here. You talked about civil unions. Does that mean you do not regard gay people as mainstream New Zealanders?
                      BRASH: Well they’re clearly not, they’re a small minority of people, but let me be clear. I made it very clear in the debate on that issue that I thought this should be dealt with by referendum because it’s a big change in the civil institutions of society. I also said that in the referendum I would vote for it because I have no problem with same sex couples committing to live together faithfully as heterosexual couples do.
                      PRESENTER: You simply don’t regard gays as part of mainstream New Zealand?
                      BRASH: Well they are clearly, by definition, a small minority of New Zealanders…


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