Brian Edwards’ crazed ideas about the U.S. assault on Vietnam
This old codger is getting older, but not a whit wiser
The Panel, Radio NZ National, Monday 3 March 2014
Jim Mora, Michelle Boag, Brian Edwards
This old codger is getting older, but not a whit wiser
The Panel, Radio NZ National, Monday 3 March 2014
Jim Mora, Michelle Boag, Brian Edwards
Long time sufferers of this ever-worsening programme will be all too familiar with the ignorant and often rancorous contributions by such guests as Michael Bassett, Stephen Franks, Garth “Gaga” George, Nevil “Breivik” Gibson and Jordan Williams. But it’s not only the extreme right that spews nasty, foolish rhetoric on Jim Mora’s show. Today that old fool Dr Brian Edwards had a few ill-considered words to say about the crisis in the Crimea and Ukraine. He, naturally, is opposed to Russian aggression. Forty-something years ago, when he was posing as an educated broadcaster, he was apparently opposed to American aggression too. But not any longer. Today he made one of the stupidest statements to ever be uttered on the Panel.
I sent off the following email to Jim Mora…..
Destroying Vietnam was “a good outcome”? The U.S. tries to “export democracy”?!!??!?
Dear Jim,
Brian Edwards made the remarkable claim that the United States’ devastating decade of attacking Vietnam was “a good outcome.” Michelle Boag could not agree quickly enough with that hare-brained statement.
Then, a little later, you made the even more preposterous claim that the United States has been “trying to export democracy to the middle east.” Either you have absolutely no knowledge of what the U.S. has done and continues to do in Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Saudi Arabia and Yemen (to name just a half dozen of the worst examples) or you are exercising a particularly wicked sense of humour.
Are you going to reconsider and retract your “exporting democracy” claim? And if not, why not?
Yours in horror at the standards of discussion on The Panel,
Morrissey Breen
Northcote Point
Northcote Point
- Good stuff Morrissey.Didn’t hear that bit but perhaps Brian will put me right on the tears I ran around a corner to weep – when after several days of giving money to crippled people in Ho Chi Minh City it dawned that these weren’t ‘merely’ disabled – these were people not even alive when it all ended, genetically fucked up by US agent orange – the other “gift “which came with the democracy “gift”.If you want to know how I deduced disability unlike any other just think about your toes pointing backward rather than forward. Your elbow all back to front. And the back of your hand being the palm of your hand.I certainly hope for Brian’s sake that the intended sale of his and Judy’s house (about which he burbled to Michelle’s rapt fascination – “lovely house….lovely house”) – doesn’t deliver the disastrous “good outcome” which so favours those lucky Vietnamese.
- to moras’ credit..…a couple of times he tried to bring up the regime-change machinations america has been involved in in the ukraine....edwards-the-elder just poo-pooed/ignored them..both times....if edwards-the-elders’ neck gets any redder....those waliking behind him will need to wear welders-masks....and if his views of complex geo-political situations get any more simplistic....he will need to be issued with crayons....phillip ure..
Morrissey20.2.1
…. if his views of complex geo-political situations get any more simplistic..He’ll be joining ACT next.Paul20.2.1.1
Too much time in Herne Bay rubbing shoulders with the elite.
Te Reo Putake20.3
As usual Moz, you’ve got it wrong. Or you don’t know what the word ‘outcome’ means. Or both. Edwards didn’t say the war itself was a good outcome (presumably partially because he knows what the word means). What he actually said was that the Vietnam war had a good outcome. Which it did, given that the aggressor lost a war for the first time and the Vietnamese won a united country.No doubt you’ll be writing to Mora to apologise. Would you mind publishing that? I like a laugh in these dimming autumn evenings.Actual transcript here (Edwards from about 12 minutes in, the comment Moz misunderstood at about 14 minutes):http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2587632/the-panel-with-brian-edwards-and-michelle-boag-part-1- If I got it all wrong, I’ll apologize immediately. If I misconstrued his remarks, which I only heard the tail end of, then that’s unforgivable. Utterly unforgivable.Here I am; feel free to come and have a shot at me, fellas…..
http://cannonsgreatescapes.com/images/PilloryMarkSheila.JPGSo I apologize to Dr. Edwards, assuming I got it wrong.I’m trusting your integrity here, Te Reo.- you didn’t get it wrong....edwards essentially listed all the american invasions..recent and past....as having ‘good outcomes’....i mean..syria..?..libya..?....edwards is a fool....phillip ure..
- Oh, Phil, so very very wrong. Actual transcript here (Edwards from about 12 minutes in, the comment Moz and Phil misunderstood/misreported at about 14 minutes):http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2587632/the-panel-with-brian-edwards-and-michelle-boag-part-1
- Actually, Edwards is even more indolent than I first thought. I did not misconstrue him at all. Thanks for putting up that link, Te Reo—now YOU need to listen to the old fool sounding off. His complacency and woolly-mindedness are on a par with the likes of that incest-touting ACT leader.He’s backed up enthusiastically all the way by his good friend Michelle Boag. This is commentary of the standard you would expect from the more deranged and drunken callers on NewstalkZB in the small hours of the morning….Boag condemns Vladimir Putin for not being democratic. She regrets that Russia lacks our “Western values”. In a speech of breathtaking hypocrisy, she pontificates: “When you open up a country and give people access to freedom and free media, you can’t harness people… It’s a different WORLD now… People don’t like being constrained…” One wonders where Michelle Boag was as the U.S. and its vassals (Britain, Australia, Canada) defied overwhelming public opinion in the buildup to their illegal wars a decade ago. I cannot recall her uttering even one word of stern admonition against Bush, Blair, Howard and their cronies.If some kid in a Year 9 class came up with something like Brian Edwards’ “analysis” of Putin, he or she would be mocked as particularly dull, and lazy…..EDWARDS RE PUTIN: You can tell a lot about Putin just by looking at pictures of him. I don’t think I can recall a leader who is so perpetually grim and quite clearly has never smiled since birth and is quite clearly a dictator…. I think that was an excellent summary that Michelle just gave. …. It doesn’t matter what anybody says, you can’t do much against a dictatorship.EDWARDS RE U.S. “INTERVENTIONS”: Well these outcomes have not been too bad. I mean, look at North Korea and South Korea. Would you wish to be living in North Korea at the moment? Although you can cast doubt on the motives of the Americans and the Brits and the New Zealanders, because we have been involved in a lot of it, the outcomes seem to have been pretty good on the whole.Just as outrageously, Michelle Boag took the opportunity to somehow use this to express her support for illegal government snooping and to belittle those who object to it.BOAG: And I think it’s very difficult for us never having been in a regime where you are truly oppressed and you know we get rhetoric about you know the government is spying on us but ….So you were wrong, Te Reo. I should have known better than to trust you.
McFlock…
Just to clarify, mos, where exactly was it that:Brian Edwards made the remarkable claim that the United States’ devastating decade of attacking Vietnam was “a good outcome.”That was your claim. TRP said you were wrong.- Don’t hold your breath …
- Don’t hold your breath …I’ve transcribed part of the audio you so helpfully provided. So you can stop pretending I was wrong.As is clear to anyone who listens to that godawful audio, I am right, and you are (yet again) wrong.
- Yeah, of course you are
Because that transcript clearly shows that “Brian Edwards made the remarkable claim that the United States’ devastating decade of attacking Vietnam was “a good outcome.” - I’ve transcribed part of the audio you so helpfully provided.Sigh.Brian Edwards made the remarkable claim that the United States’ devastating decade of attacking Vietnam was “a good outcome.”does not equal your “transcript”Well these outcomes have not been too bad. I mean, look at North Korea and South Korea. Would you wish to be living in North Korea at the moment? Although you can cast doubt on the motives of the Americans and the Brits and the New Zealanders, because we have been involved in a lot of it, the outcomes seem to have been pretty good on the whole.which does not equal 14m10sWell these outcomes have not all been too bad. I mean, youlook at North Korea and South Korea. Would you want to be living in North Korea at the moment? um Or – I mean there’s a whole variety of places you could look at in this sort of way, North Vietnam South Vietnam and so on. So I think thatAlthough you can cast doubt on the motives of the Americans and the Brits and the rest of us and the New Zealanders as well, because we have been involved in all this sort of thing, the outcomes seem to have been pretty good on the whole.
- “Clarify”? I got it right first time, erring only in not capturing precisely what that old fool Edwards said in his gouty rambling. I have now put up exactly what he did say—and it’s worse than anyone might have suspected.
- no, no you didn’t. and then, no you didn’t.And if “it’s worse than anyone might have suspected”, then how could your initial summary of it have been accurate? If you had started off being at all accurate, then what he did actually say would be a surprise to nobody.
- You’re quibbling again. I was correct in my original assessment, as you know perfectly well. Yes, as you gleefully point out, I left out a couple of words in my hasty first take on that old poseur’s confused and wandery locution, but I got the essence of it just right.I trusted Te Reo to have made a genuine criticism; he let us (and himself) down.
- Oh fuck, now we’re back to arguing about whether a “transcript” is a record of what was said, or merely the essence of what you believe was said.Your original assessment was “Brian Edwards made the remarkable claim that the United States’ devastating decade of attacking Vietnam was “a good outcome.””.You made that up.
- Thanks for that Phillip. I thought that Edwards’ wandery ruminations were along those lines, but I didn’t hear the whole thing. Te Reo has given me pause for thought, though: I shall listen to the transcript our friend has provided and get back to you later.
- The only thing I got wrong was I underestimated just how cynical and hypocritical Boag and Edwards are.Many years ago, Edwards never tired of telling his listeners and viewers how he hated reading, and almost invariably watched television instead.Muddle-headed, ignorant, ill-informed opinionating like he indulged in this afternoon is the result.
rhinocrates20.4
That’s the journey that a lot of privileged liberals take. There are distinct stages:Progressivism: “Yeah, I’m against The Man, man.”Acclaim: “Thank you, thank you… see, they’re thanking me!”Comfort: “We have achieved so much, or I have… mostly me, dare I say it.”Smugness: “You must listen to me, I am the elder statesman.”Solipsism: “We had a wonderful dinner party last night and my friends agreed with me.”Belated attempt to remind people of previous progressive gestures: “I’m cool, remember?”Accommodation of reactionary forces in the guise of open-mindedness: “Now you must admit that he has a point and you shouldn’t be rude about him even if he does talk about concentration camps.”Support for reactionary authority pretending to be progressivism: “We have to be realistic, even if it is unpleasant, that would be mature, like me.”Unashamed reactionary authoritarianism and worship of dictators: “Get off my lawn!”Edwards is now at the last stage and Russell Brown is getting pretty close now.North20.4.1
How about you get off Morrissey’s back McFlock and Te Reo ? Rhinocrates says it second @20.4 basically as Morrissey said it first.And as for Edwards’ “……..the outcomes seem to have been pretty good on the whole. ” – by what bloody standard ?The standard that the US and its allies raped Vietnam for ‘only’ a decade or so ?Or the standard that ‘only’ 3 million plus Vietnamese died rather than say 6 million ?Or the standard that maybe not ‘every’ sibling of those I witnessed begging in the street in Ho Chi Minh City has five thumbs ?Or the standards of a dotage enjoyed in a wing back chair and carpet slippers and bestie Michelle round for dinner………its warmth and security threatened only by the impending sale of a fucking house ?Ah, I’ve got it. It’s the standard that Morrissey is so churlishly beastly that his comments re the revisionist ramblings of the “Waiting for God” duo Edwards/Bogue are just not permitted.Check out the name and nature of the blog you both contribute to.- well, I like to see people get shit ripped from them for what they did actually say, rather than what some delusional idiot half-remembers what he believed he heard them almost say.Personally, I think north vietnam was probably preferable to south vietnam, especially under diem. But edwards was right about the koreas. And he sure didn’t say that the United States’ devastating decade of attacking Vietnam was “a good outcome.”
- yes he did..he said it was ‘a good outcome’....because vietnam got a united country..(!)..he is almost at the stage of needing a note pinned to his jacket....to make sure he gets home again....phillip ure..
- Use your nouns, phil
“he”?
“it”?Frankly, I disagree with trp’s interpretation, too.
But edwards was talking about western states’ geopolitical shenenigans as a whole, not declaiming solely about the US in vietnam. Which makes morrissey’s complaint just so much marsh gas.- stop squashing yr sentences all up together....let them breathe....give each idea its’ own line....and edwards endorsed all american empire activities since forever....with vietnam as just one ‘good outcome’ example cited by him....why are you so nit-pickey all over morrissey..?..do you two + trp have a ‘thing’ going on..or something..?....have you got a bit of a ‘bad’-complex/obsession with him..?..phillip ure..
- I get fucked off when people are repeatedly careless with the truth. Morrissey is just as bad as BM.There’s enough shit in the world to get angry about without inventing fantasies.
- If Edwards knew ANYTHING about “the Koreas” he would know something about the United States’ destruction of the country in the early 1950s. The regime that emerged in the devastated north, like the regime that emerged a generation later in Cambodia, is a direct result of American total war.But Edwards probably doesn’t know much about Korea at all; he boasts about his dislike and disdain for reading. And ignorant rants like we were subjected to yesterday are the result.
- North, these two are on a mission. It doesn’t matter to them what they say, as long as they discredit me. Well, that’s what they intend to do.It goes back to their utter fury at being called on their craven support for official black propaganda (i.e., lies) aimed at Julian Assange, Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden. They have never forgotten that; if supporting an ignorant radio opinionator is tactically necessary, they’ll swallow that slimy dead rat.
- It’s actually much more simple.
If your delusional crap goes completely unchallenged, you discredit everyone here by association.- It’s actually much more simple.
If your delusional crap goes completely unchallenged,Certainly I have made the odd slip-up with my rush transcripts. But, as proved to be the case yesterday, my initial reaction to them is usually spot on. Yesterday I misguidedly trusted that one of your partners in crime was telling the truth when he claimed that Edwards had not uttered an inane defence of America’s destruction of Korea and Vietnam. I trusted your comrade so much that I even issued a provisional apology to Edwards.Of course, as the transcript you provided shows clearly, I was correct, and our friend Te Reo was (unwisely) attempting to be tricky. My provisional apology to that old fool has been revoked.In your ideologically charged malice, you choose to portray the odd minor error of transcription as “delusional crap”. There was nothing delusional about my pinging that silly old codger for his depraved and ignorant comments, just as there was nothing delusional about my calling Chris “Haw Haw” Trotter for his windy oratory on behalf of the Florida jury that found Trayvon Martin’s executioner not guilty last year.….you discredit everyone here by association.I have discredited YOU, repeatedly. Or perhaps it’s more a case of you discrediting yourself.felix…
Nah, McFlock’s right. You talk a lot of shit and you claim it as fact. It’s a really bad look for the site if no-one calls you on it.- Nah, McFlock’s right.No he is not right. He has unwisely waded in over his head yet again, and has been outed as a cynical, conscience-free liar for what must now be something like the twelfth or thirteenth time.* He is an ideologically charged zealot, who is quite happy to say anything at all in an attempt to belittle me. Unfortunately for him, and for his lesser supporters like yourself, he has been systematically shown to be a liar and a pettifogging quibbler so many times now that he has nothing left to offer other than bawling witlessly that anything he doesn’t like is “delusional crap”.You talk a lot of shit and you claim it as fact. It’s a really bad look for the site if no-one calls you on it.Your dismissive and flippant tone does nothing to alter the impression that you are out of your intellectual depth.* Perhaps some Standardista with a little time on his/her hands might like to check on how many occasions poor old McFuck has been keelhauled over the last couple of years.
- “keelhauled “?
sounds like a pwned argument to me.[lprent: Nope. Just a particularly good reason to avoid the dutch navy. In this context more about the gruelling punishment than a peal of victory methinks. ]- pity
- morrissey, I was aware of the term, you dipshit.I just thought that maybe you were under the delusion that maybe any punishment you’d inflicted upon me was by way of some manner of semantic victory.But maybe you were instead referring to the sheer tedium of dealing with a delusional fuck who provides two different “transcripts” of what was said and then insists that both are completely accurate. Although in that case I still think that the term is somewhat overblown for a blog argument.
- QED Moz.Not a shred of reasoning or evidence to back up anything in that comment, and nary an example even.Just talking a lot of shit and claiming it as fact.
- “QED”?You obviously don’t even know what that means. I, and others, have exhaustively and frequently refuted your comments and those of your betters on this board for longer than would be necessary if you had any sense of shame or decency.I note that even after I call you on your vacuous repetition of the “talking shit” reflex—that’s ALL you have to contribute to any discussion, I note—you continue to employ it. That’s more than sad. Standardisti might care to consult a thesaurus and find a more colorful synonym than “loser” to describe this bloke. I just can’t be bothered.Except I WILL say this: our abuse-spraying friend “felix” should not be on the internet, digging ever deeper into his deep hole of shame. He should be in a ditch somewhere, or under a hedge, licking his wounds. The sad thing, though, is that he is too insensate to even recognize what desperate straits he is now in.
- Yawn. In this instance I used it to mean that you have provided the demonstration for me. You can’t link to a single example of anything you claim.Just talking shit, as usual, and expecting everyone take your word for how omnipotent you are.
Professor Longhair…
I see that one “felix” has made quite a duffer of himself recently….“Yawn.”
To combat Breen, I would have thought you’d try to match wits with him. “Yawn” indicates that you lack the wherewithal to do anything. Not a compelling start.“In this instance I used it to mean that you have provided the demonstration for me.”
You failed to do anything of the sort.“You can’t link to a single example of anything you claim.”
Breen has done exactly that, on more occasions than you, certainly, like to recall. A quick Boolean exercise shows that only too clearly.“Just talking shit, as usual…”
Again, that’s an abject admission of not only your own lack of wit, but of complete and utter defeat.As Breen did the other day, I warmly commend you to retire behind a hedge somewhere and salve your rather embarrassing wounds.- Doesn’t matter how many logins you use to type the same non-arguments, you’re still just stating opinions as if they were self-evidently true and I still have no interest in responding to your dull insults.
- one thing i find hilarious about edwards-the-elder is his getting all sniffy/pretentious at anyone suggesting he is a p.r-trout/spinner/master of those dark-arts..as he clearly is....he so much prefers to be referred to as a ‘media adviser’…eh..?..one persons’ ‘spinner’ is clearly anothers’ ‘media-adviser....when they look in the mirror....phillip ure..
