Wednesday 5 December 2018

Confronting faux-liberal propagandists on The Standard (Jan.9, 2017)

                    • adam12.1
                      I’d add that Venezuela is not as bad as how people like to paint it. And in one case at least, the toilet paper debacle. It was the actions of supermarkets chains inside the country to deliberately not buy toilet paper, that created the shortage – then they blamed the government for a lack of toilet paper.
                      Ironic that one of the so called libertarians came on here ranting and raving how bad it was they had no toilet paper, and it was the governments fault.
                      I suppose with Venezuela being a target of every hard right loon, the other South American Nations can just get on with the job of improving people lives.
                      Bolivia is great and so is their president – I put up an interview with him some time ago with Abby Martin, very insightful.
                    • Morrissey12.2
                      You really are the definition of a useful idiot. Francisco Toro is an utterly discredited right wing shill, and he writes his vicious propaganda for a paper which acts pretty much as a North American version of Pravda. In 2003, Toro was forced to resign from the New York Times, when his biased and unfair Venezuela coverage proved too outrageous even for that government megaphone….
                      MEMO Swordfish:
                      I read your heartfelt plea yesterday to all on the liberal and progressive side of politics to put aside our differences, with an election coming up later this year. But I ask you: are we expected to remain silent when people like this fellow post up such inaccurate and incendiary material?
                  • Bill13
                    About interfering in another county’s domestic democratic processes…
                    Is the UK threatening sanctions or whatever against Israel? No. Of course not. And yet the level of meddling claimed to be at least under consideration is a million blue miles beyond any influence Russia is claimed to have had on the US processes (in the released Intelligence report) via bog standard media presentations by rt or who-ever, that the NSA and others are pushing and/or using as a pretext to ‘ratchet it up’ with Russia.
                    • One Anonymous Bloke13.1
                      And?
                      The relationship between Israel and the UK is not the same as the relationship between the USA and the RF. Nations have a range of measures they take when things like this come to light.
                      The UK government says “We promote Britain’s security, prosperity and well-being, and regional peace, through partnership with Israel”. Would you describe US/RF relations as a “partnership”?
                      If the UK were to impose sanctions (or any other long-term measures) on Israel, I’d expect them to do so after any official inquiries had concluded.
                      • Bill13.1.1
                        Thankyou for that take OAB.
                        So meddling in another’s internal affairs isn’t really such a big deal after all unlessthere is a deep seated institutional antipathy being harboured for the offending party? At which point, a possibly dangerous and certainly irrational response or set of responses being called for by those institutional actors is well within the realms of acceptability?
                        If that’s the case, then it’s fine, because liberal social democracies have checks and balances in place. Except that if you go google any mainstream outlet on the allegations the US is making towards Russia, you’ll see nothing but lock-step compliance with the idea that something quite unprecedented happened and that the right response is ‘to hate on’ Russia and (this is beginning to emerge) denounce any and all who aren’t gleefully jumping aboard the bandwagon – anyone who has the temerity to stand up and say “Hey. Just a second”. And that’s not fine.
                        That’s ‘The Red Scare’. That’s McCarthyism.
                        • One Anonymous Bloke13.1.1.1
                          …Trump accepts the US intelligence community’s conclusion…
                          Republicans have urged Trump to “punish” Russia.
                          In a joint appearance on NBC’s Meet the Press, Republican Senators Lindsey Graham and John McCain said evidence was conclusive that Putin sought to influence the election.
                          “In a couple weeks, Donald Trump will be the defender of the free world and democracy,” Graham said.
                          “You should let everybody know in America, Republicans and Democrats, that you’re going to make Russia pay a price for trying to interfere.”
                          • Colonial Viper13.1.1.1.1
                            Lindsey Graham taking about democracy and freedom. The circle of neocon idiocy is complete.
                          • Colonial Viper13.1.1.1.2
                            Former Republican National Committee chairman, said Trump understands that Moscow was behind the intrusions into the Democratic Party organisations.
                            “He accepts the fact that this particular case was entities in Russia so that’s not the issue,” Priebus said on Fox News Sunday.
                            Notice how the article said MOSCOW whereas Priebus actually said “ENTITIES IN RUSSIA”.
                            Which might be a teenage kid in his grandma’s basement in Siberia.
                            • Psycho Milt13.1.1.1.2.1
                              It might be. It might have been the fairies at the bottom of my garden, too, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t.
                            • One Anonymous Bloke13.1.1.1.2.2
                              I notice some much-clutched straws and a floating corpse, puffed up like a balloon.
                          • One Two13.1.1.1.3
                            John ISIS McCain and Lindsay Graham
                            Recently returned from Georgia on ‘unofficial business’
                            Are they the ‘traitor squad’?
                  • Bearded Git14
                    We need a government that takes the RMA seriously-often ignored in The Standard.
                    The RMA has been gutted with the incremental changes National, with the support of their lackies the Maori Party, have pushed through.
                    It is now a developer’s charter and bugger the landscape.
                  • Carolyn_nth15
                    I am not keen on all the hype from the Nats and 6pm evening news for diverless cars.
                    Matt L on the Transport Blog has done an interesting post on the pros and cons of autonomous cars. This bit had me laughing out loud.
                    Especially early on, this improved safety will be achieved by the vehicles being much more cautious on our roads as human drivers are much less predictable. More cautious also means slower and how will a trip taking longer by being driverless affect usage. Of course as I’ve pointed out before, it won’t take long for pedestrians to catch on and effectively reclaim the streets simply be threatening to walk across the road and all cars will stop.
                    My bold.
                    • weka15.1
                      Excellent. That made me laugh too, thanks.
                    • Bill15.2
                      I think I’ve just become a convert to the idea of everyone having a driverless car. 🙂
                    • Anne15.3
                      Oh gosh, the endless pranks. Nose to tails and cars slewed in all directions.
                      • Carolyn_nth15.3.1
                        LOL.
                        Well, after reading the TB post and comments, it oks to me like the best use of autonomous vehicles would be in the public transport system – within closed systems where humans can’t interfere. Apparently the already work well in Vancouver’s Metro – (presumably underground).
                        Plus, I think there would still need to be security guards in a mass transit system – so jobs still needed within the system.
                        Whereas, driverless cars seem to be too fraught with problems in urban areas, especially within a CBD.
                  • Paul16
                    Greenwald: U.S. Intel Chiefs Alleging Russian Threat Have History of Deceiving the Public.
                  • Paul17
                    Syria: Eva Bartlett interviewed by Ajamu Baraka
                      • You really want to go there again? Continually posting propaganda for a despotic hereditary dictatorship is offensive – stop doing it, for fuck’s sake.
                        • Colonial Viper17.1.1.1
                          Ahhhh Psycho Milt, still wanting to bring freedom and democracy to the Middle East.
                          BTW how’s that been working out for the west over the last 50 years?
                          Why not admit that it’s time the Anglo-US empire stopped with reruns of the Sykes-Picot bullshit and looked after the health of their own democracies for a change?
                          • Psycho Milt17.1.1.1.1
                            As usual, you’re addressing some comment you’d prefer someone had made, rather than the actual comment. Paul spamming Open Mike with Assad regime propaganda is the subject at hand, not “the Anglo-US empire.” He may have forgotten agreeing a couple of weeks back to stop doing it, but I haven’t.
                            • Colonial Viper17.1.1.1.1.1
                              It’s not propaganda if it’s the truth, particularly if it is truth which competes against the chosen narrative that the Anglo-US imperial propaganda prefers.
                            • weka17.1.1.1.1.2
                              got a link PM?
                            • Morrissey17.1.1.1.1.3
                              Paul spamming Open Mike with Assad regime propaganda…
                              ????
                              Paul is one of the more civilised and thoughtful contributors to this mostly excellent site. I’m sure I am not the only person to notice that over the last few months he has been vilified and ridiculed by a small group of ideological fanatics whose brutal ad hominem attacks, distortions and outright lies, such as the one in italics above, are similar to the sort of thing that Cameron Slater engages in on his disreputable blog.
                              MEMO weka:
                              Why is Psycho Milt permitted to post up bald-faced and incendiary lies like this repeatedly? He seems to be immune to any standards of behaviour or truthfulness.
                              • Colonial Viper
                                Morrissey, I quietly suggest that it’s not a good idea to criticise the way moderation is applied on this site.
                                • Morrissey
                                  Actually, I note that at 17.1.1.1.1.2, weka has asked him to provide a link to back up his statements.
                                  I discussed the likes of Psycho Milt with the moderators a few weeks ago; they are aware of the problem, although understandably reluctant to stop them. Sunlight is of course the best disinfectant against these fanatics—and the best way to expose them to the sunlight is by calling them out whenever they try to do it—as I did just an hour or so ago, after the ever credulous “Ad” posted a vile piece of propaganda….
                                  • weka
                                    I have no problem whatsoever with people asking questions about moderation. There are a few lines not to cross over. One is attacking authors. Another, a particular bugbear of mine, is people making out that there is a problem with pseudonyms, “Morrissey”.
                                    As for PM, he’s expressing an opinion. By all means call him on that but it’s hardly a moderating offence. Likewise, you expressed an opinion as to the value of Paul’s comments. Personally I find your assertions much more problematic than PMs, because you cast general aspersions rather than naming specific people and comments. Either way, there’s no rule against thinking someone else is a dick and expressing that.
                                    “I discussed the likes of Psycho Milt with the moderators a few weeks ago; they are aware of the problem, although understandably reluctant to stop them.”
                                    I’d like you to link to that conversation please. Because you’ve just implied that more than one moderator thinks there is a problem with PM’s commenting, and as another moderator, I’d like to see the context.
                                    as an aside, there was a fleeting discussion in the back end last week about whether to do something about the amount of FB-like posts in OM.
                                  • Are you aware that the “ever-credulous” Ad you just delivered one of your stern, pompous rebukes to is one of the moderators you apparently discussed “the likes of me” with a few days ago?
                                    EDIT:
                                    weka: sorry, posted the above without seeing your comment.

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