“Take those books and shove them… I get my information from TV.” Beware the militant ignorance of the irrational right
DAVID LETTERMAN:[guffawing] I don’t read BOOKS! AUDIENCE: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Yesterday I and a few others from Daisycutter Sports Inc. spent some time perusing the contents and interacting with—some might call it trolling—the denizens of Mr David P. Farrar’s organ.
It was pretty much a typical day on Kiwiblog, with some very good and thoughtful posts, peppered with the usual sour, bitter cynicism and abuse. This can be occasionally funny and colourful but it’s usually just repetitive and tiresome: “imbecilic moron”, “fake news”, “idiot Council department”, “ardern the liar”, “Irish…scientist….heh heh heh.”, “Arrogant arse… Piss off..”, et cetera.
However, there’s something darker and more sinister in the shadows at Kiwiblog, and at Cameron Slater’s joke of a site, and at every other right wing blog here and overseas: willful, defiant ignorance, and a refusal to even consider seriously thinking about an issue. We’ve become accustomed to seeing this every single day with every moronic tweet that comes out of the notorious @realDonaldTrump account; it’s a melancholy fact that a lot of people use Trump’s brass-plated defiance of all common sense and reality as a template for their own behaviour.
As an illustration of this, have a look at these three posts from yesterday’s General Debate on Kiwiblog:
[1] “By the way, take those books and shove them up your over used arse, like ardern the liar, I get my information from TV.” — Tall Man
[2] “I don’t need to read any biased diatribes by the cretin Hagar… Hagar is a fuckwit peace activist with an agenda; he wants total dismantling of the armed forces and intelligence services in this country so excuse me if I put little credence in anything from that treasonous ass.” — Salacious Crumb
[3] “Stuff do not allow posts that deny Climate Change They say the science is settled and they will only accept correspondce that agrees with them. How can MSM be so evil? What happened to informed debate.” — DigNap15
There are several of these angry and ignorant characters infesting this excellent site. They need to be challenged forcefully every time they write something like this…..
September 11was caused by Al Queada and their base was in Afghanistan. The Taliban Government was requested to remove them and turn over the leadership to US authorities. They were under clear notice that if they refused there was UN sanction to go and get them. As we know they did refuse and Afghanistan was invaded. New Zealand was involved from the outset.
I recall Deputy Prime Ministers Andertons speech in Parliament in Sept 2001 committing New Zealands support. Given the history between the US and NZ (and I am not primarily considering the nuclear issue – the relationship is deeper than that) I do not think that NZ could have simply stood on the sidelines.
“They need to be challenged forcefully” – why? Must every crowd discussion become hostile? I prefer peace. A lot of polarisation is driven by failure to see things from the other’s point of view, seems to me.
Doesn’t mean you have to agree with them, but you become able to engage on a non-hostile basis. It can lead to polite disagreement, agreeing to disagree, and if not walking away often works better. Zen teaches that.
Leftist thought often emanates from a need to persuade others that one view is correct, and often that inner need becomes a problem for others who feel put upon as a result of becoming the target of compulsion. Passive aggression seems more counter-productive than helpful.
Jesus talked about casting pearls before swine. There’s another biblical parable about casting seed onto arid ground, same lesson. Folks only change their mind when ready, willing & able to do so. Haranguing them is usually a waste of time.
Well I agree that some of the ignorant rants on these sites raise hackles Morrisey, but Frank is right, don’t take the bait, try to be kind. I think Jacinda would say it says far more about them than about her. Cheers.
Sometimes it pays to just sit back, hold the tongue and watch without comment. It can be quite therapeutic at times, especially when you know who the first to come grovelling when and if it all turns to shit will be.
(Here Endeth the First lesson – ooops – learning, going forward …… /sarc)
… there’s something darker and more sinister in the shadows at Kiwiblog, and at Cameron Slater’s joke of a site, and at every other right wing blog here and overseas: willful, defiant ignorance, and a refusal to even consider seriously thinking about an issue. We’ve become accustomed to seeing this every single day with every moronic tweet that comes out of the notorious @realDonaldTrump account; it’s a melancholy fact that a lot of people use Trump’s brass-plated defiance of all common sense and reality as a template for their own behaviour.
I have take your word re- the right wing blog sites Morrissey since I rarely venture near any of them. However I totally agree with the rest of the statement. Tunnel-visioned, ignorant right-wing morons around the world are rapidly being enabled and activated by Trumpism.
Many decades ago, my late father predicted that a new fascist type leader would one day emerge and WW3 would follow. He claimed it was likely to happen in America. Since a lot of his prognostications have come to fruition over the years I fear this one might too. As time passes. there is less and less difference between Trumpism and Fascism.
Don’t take the above as meaning I’m a supporter of the current Russian regime because I suspect they will prove to be the other half of the Fascist coin. time will tell.
Many decades ago, my late father predicted that a new fascist type leader would one day emerge and WW3 would follow. He claimed it was likely to happen in America. Since a lot of his prognostications have come to fruition over the years I fear this one might too. As time passes. there is less and less difference between Trumpism and Fascism.
Well, there is the Business Plot to install a fascist government in the US to consider.
As we know, fascism was eventually defeated in World War 2. But just before the end of the war, with the fascists on the ropes, the Vice President of the United States at the time, Henry Wallace, penned an op-ed for the New York Times warning Americans about the creeping dangers of fascism – or corporate government.
He defined a fascist as, “those who, paying lip service to democracy and the common welfare, in their insatiable greed for money and the power which money gives, do not hesitate surreptitiously to evade the laws designed to safeguard the public from monopolistic extortion.”
He defined a fascist as, “those who, paying lip service to democracy and the common welfare, in their insatiable greed for money and the power which money gives, do not hesitate surreptitiously to evade the laws designed to safeguard the public from monopolistic extortion.”
Well, there we all go…. with our eyes, ears and cerebral senses closed to what is happening around us. Well, some of us are alert to it.
Back to my father: He took his young wife and very young family (not me, I came later) away from England in 1937 and brought them to NZ on the basis there was another World War just around the corner. He was laughed at by family and friends.
He made the prediction back in the 1960s when the technology of today was still largely in the realms of science fiction, so his understanding of how another global war might manifest itself was limited. Nonetheless I can look back now and appreciate he was always way ahead of his peers, but he wasn’t the only one as patricia bremner has attested to.
It’s been estimated that an average American living in cities sees up to 4,000 ads a day. This toxic culture of mindless consumption exploits our innermost insecurities and desire to meet impossible standards. The corporate PR machine is enormously successful due to model created by a man named Edward Bernays nearly a century ago.
Our entire system is based around propagating the lies needed to keep the rich in power.
Well they’re not really asleep @ Ed. They’re just suffering the consequences of the neo-liberal ‘ism’, which as I’ve commented elsewhere, is not just a political agenda, but also a language and a culture and a way of ‘being’ It’s a shame it wasn’t chopped off at its roots a fucking sight earlier, but since it wasn’t, it’s hardly surprising we are where we are today. Not surprising we now have a generation that have grown up knowing nothing else – including our now so-called ‘left’ tishuns going forward.
But it is what it is and so perhaps we should be grateful for each and every little shift that challenges it. And if it doesn’t work out when the Peter Thiels and Nafe Gois come grovelling – just put ’em at the bottom of your list when dealing out sympathy – history is inclined to repeat if not exactery if my old mate Dame Edna once told me in the strictest of confidence. Or in other words – Fuck ’em
“He took his young wife and very young family (not me, I came later) away from England in 1937 and brought them to NZ on the basis there was another World War just around the corner. He was laughed at by family and friends.”
Churchill 1934 ..’Germany is arming fast, and no one is going to stop her. I dread the day when the means of threatening the heart of the British Empire should pass into the hands of the present rulers of Germany…I dread that day, but it is not, perhaps, far distant.’
1936 when he asked for air defence systems for London “attempts will be made to burn down London.” plus in a newspaper column …..that the Reich “is arming more strenuously, more scientifically and upon a larger scale, than any nation has ever armed before.”
Critics derided him as Britain’s “number one warmonger.”
Perhaps best to delve deeper in Churchill’s comment and correspondence rather than rely solely on an article one which seeks to forgive the use of gas in Syria.
Critics derided him as Britain’s “number one warmonger.”
Yes. On that occasion the critics were proven wrong.
My father was in Germany in 1936 and witnessed the rearmament programme for himself. He also had the unnerving experience of noticing that the odd person was running away from him in the street. He didn’t fathom out why at the time but, as a former British soldier, he had a military bearing and they would have been Jewish Germans who thought he was a Nazi in civilian clothing.
There’s even a similarity to what is happening in the US today. I refer to the demonisation of legitimate refugees fleeing corrupt South American regimes, and the plight of the Jews in Europe in the 1930s and 40s.
I don’t think those of us of more recent generations in the West have any real comprehension of what our parents and grandparents went through in the first half of the 20th century.
Churchill is on record asserting that Hitler was a “moderate.” At the same time he was spewing that bilge, he was refusing to shake the hand of diplomats from the democratically elected Spanish government, which was under siege from his friend General Franco.
Anyone Noticed news about Israeli analytical company sponsored by one of Putins Puppet billionaires connected to Mueller investigation going bankrupt wouldn’t be surprised if Slater’s visit to Israel was connected Farrers analytics also
Is there anything incorrect in what I said there? I was essentially setting out what occurred in September/October 2001
Jim Anderton was extremely clear in his speeches in Parliament and in public where he considered New Zealand should stand. I happened to agree with him.
Whether you agree with the decision that the New Zealand took in September/October is a different issue to the facts of the attack, and that the Taliban government was harbouring Al Qaeda. Obviously you don’t/didn’t support the decision of the New Zealand government. The decision by Jim Anderton as Deputy PM to support the deployment of the New Zealand SAS did tear apart the Alliance Party.
Eighteen years later, with Afghanistan and Iraq in ruins, and the resultant catastrophe in Syria, and you are still pretending to be serious with that question.
I am appalled at the capacity of politicians to say and do the unspeakable. Not just you, Wayne, but Macho Man Anderton, Flag-waving Phil Goff, Action Man Key and all the rest of them.
And every week the civilians and citizens of Afghanistan pay with their lives for the hubris of Blair, Bush and Wayne.
Just this week……
“At least 75 members of pro-government forces and 14 civilians were killed this week. Pro-government forces casualties increased this week compared to last week, but civilian casualties were down. The deadliest violence took place in Sar-i-Pul Province, where the Taliban attacked security forces in three areas, killing a total of 21 people and wounding 25 others. At least 10 civilians suffered casualties in two operations by pro-government forces in Paktia and Faryab provinces. Casualties in both provinces were caused by American air power.”
If you weren’t aware of the ongoing catastrophe in Afghanistan, this is because the NZ corporate media thinks UFOs and the Golden Globes are more important.
What part did I get wrong, Professor? Is it only Iraq that’s in ruins? Did you hear from Leighton Smith that Afghanistan is thriving or something?
Did Goff not rhapsodize about how his nephew was in the U.S. military? Did brave John Key not pontificate about the need to “get some guts” and join the fray in Iraq?
It appears all stunned mullet does is abuse and insult people. Both you and I have been abused for making points he/she disagrees with. We get no contrary evidence, no reasoned counterpoint, no logical rebuttal….
I am fully aware of the current situation in Afghanistan.
Back around 2009/2010, the professional advice was that the ISAF forces would need to stay at least another decade to support the Afghan government. I had my own team do an independent assessment and we came to the same conclusion.
That was one of the lessons of Malaya and Singapore. The counter insurgency mission lasted from 1950 to 1970. New Zealand and Australia kept forces there till the mid 1980’s, a total of 35 years. Their presence alone helped both countries progress.
President Obama started the troop surge in 2009 and the rest of the ISAF nations, including New Zealand, also boosted their presence. But Obama didn’t stay the course. By 2011, just after there had been real gains, Obama started withdrawing (against all advice). The other ISAF nations including New Zealand followed suit. They all needed to stay till at least 2015 to cement the gains, not pull out as soon as there was progress. So now the Taliban is resurgent.
I accept Afghanistan is more difficult than Malaya and Singapore, being more remote, more removed from trade routes, and with a deeper history. But that meant it was obvious from the get go that it would be at least a 20 year mission. Although there are still some western troops, the great bulk had withdrawn by 2013, which was way too early.
Bush’s Iraq adventure certainly did not help. Maybe if Iraq had never happened , the Afghan mission would have succeeded.
We’re still fighting wars (information and otherwise)where the outcome becomes totally irrelevant in the face of climate apocalypse Here’s Private Eye on the Integrity Initiative, its vilification of Russia and Corbyn, and its connections to the Iraq war.
Funny how even here some leftists are advocating for the Brexit referendum to be re-run (see the comments section). The basic idea seems to be that democracy doesn’t produce the right result sometimes, so we need to repeat the vote process until the result sought by that particular group of leftists is produced. Could take forever.
The cicada chorus gets pretty penetrating where I am this time of year Wonder if I’m experiencing sonic concussions like those poor US diplomats in Cuba? Bloody Commie crickets!
Slight detour There has been no sign of Cicadas in our local area (yet) Also notice the absence of Monarch Butterflies (Swan plants are ready to be inundated with caterpillars), as well as few wasps and flies.
There are lots of monarch butterflies up in the part of Northland I live in. I was teaching at an early childhood centre on Friday and the children and I counted 22 caterpillars on one tree alone! (A big tree, luckily!) The wasps are a huge problem in places, though. I am staying with friends in Auckland at the moment and their big tree gets visited a lot by butterflies but there are almost never any surviving caterpillars because the wasps kill them. It is only at the end of the season when it is too cold for the wasps that the monarchs have a chance to survive.
Swan plants have been stripped here I’m on the edge of the bush with heaps of kanukas, hence the cicadas, plenty of flies,wasps expected more towards autumn. One thing I do notice is the absence of insects, moths etc swatting themselves in great numbers against the windows at night.
I am very discouraged at the moment and thinking that monarrch butterflies will become extinct. It was probably some rich brassica grower who talked some dumb minister or official into allowing the wasps to be introduced to deal with the white butterfly caterpillars, but the wasps found the monarchs tastier. I have farmed the butterflies for about 60 years with much enjoyment. Butterflies have been very scarce this year and if I see one laying eggs I cut the branch straight away and put them in the shelter. This year I had raised some monarch caterpillars from eggs, had them outside and well trussed up under shade cloth. This morning I went out to replenish the fodder, etc and somehow a wasp had got in and there was carnage. Just bits of caterpillars stuck to the leaves. Some were getting big enough to hang.
Beware the militant ignorance of the irrational right
AUDIENCE: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
I think Jacinda would say it says far more about them than about her. Cheers.
He took his young wife and very young family (not me, I came later) away from England in 1937 and brought them to NZ on the basis there was another World War just around the corner. He was laughed at by family and friends.
It’s a shame it wasn’t chopped off at its roots a fucking sight earlier, but since it wasn’t, it’s hardly surprising we are where we are today.
Not surprising we now have a generation that have grown up knowing nothing else – including our now so-called ‘left’ tishuns going forward.
And if it doesn’t work out when the Peter Thiels and Nafe Gois come grovelling – just put ’em at the bottom of your list when dealing out sympathy – history is inclined to repeat if not exactery if my old mate Dame Edna once told me in the strictest of confidence.
Or in other words – Fuck ’em
Both you and I have been abused for making points he/she disagrees with.
We get no contrary evidence, no reasoned counterpoint, no logical rebuttal….
Here’s Private Eye on the Integrity Initiative, its vilification of Russia and Corbyn, and its connections to the Iraq war.
Wonder if I’m experiencing sonic concussions like those poor US diplomats in Cuba?
Bloody Commie crickets!
There has been no sign of Cicadas in our local area (yet)
Also notice the absence of Monarch Butterflies (Swan plants are ready to be inundated with caterpillars), as well as few wasps and flies.
The wasps are a huge problem in places, though. I am staying with friends in Auckland at the moment and their big tree gets visited a lot by butterflies but there are almost never any surviving caterpillars because the wasps kill them. It is only at the end of the season when it is too cold for the wasps that the monarchs have a chance to survive.
I’m on the edge of the bush with heaps of kanukas, hence the cicadas, plenty of flies,wasps expected more towards autumn.
One thing I do notice is the absence of insects, moths etc swatting themselves in great numbers against the windows at night.