13 March, 2010
The USA a "shining light of freedom"? LOL
Dear Leighton,
You stated, in apparent high seriousness, that “America has been a
shining light of freedom for the world.” To say such a thing, you have
either suppressed, or forgotten, or be utterly ignorant of the history
of atrocities and crushing of democracy perpetrated by this “shining
light of freedom” in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba, Nicaragua,
Colombia, Chile, Paraguay, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Palestine.... the
list could be extended much more, but, as you have just stated on air,
it is quite clear that you “cannot find enough time to do a lot of
reading on it.”
shining light of freedom for the world.” To say such a thing, you have
either suppressed, or forgotten, or be utterly ignorant of the history
of atrocities and crushing of democracy perpetrated by this “shining
light of freedom” in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba, Nicaragua,
Colombia, Chile, Paraguay, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Palestine.... the
list could be extended much more, but, as you have just stated on air,
it is quite clear that you “cannot find enough time to do a lot of
reading on it.”
I know that you won’t stand to be contradicted, questioned or
challenged on air, but could I suggest you think a little more
carefully in future before making such a grandiose statement?
challenged on air, but could I suggest you think a little more
carefully in future before making such a grandiose statement?
Yours sincerely,
Morrissey Breen
Northcote Point
Northcote Point
Click here to Reply
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You seem to have conflated democracy with freedom.
Weihana.
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On Apr 13, 2:14 pm, Mo <morrisseybr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
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Actually the US has upheld freedoms: the the freedom to lie, to
torture, and to murder, the freedom to act treacherously towards the
people of its own country, and the freedom to drag other countries
into it's black hole of debt.
torture, and to murder, the freedom to act treacherously towards the
people of its own country, and the freedom to drag other countries
into it's black hole of debt.
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The US has many failings indeed. Still better than the alternatives
though.
Weihana.
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Could you explain what you mean, please? You seem a bit muddled.
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Nothing muddled at all in what I said. Leighten said the US was a
shining light of freedom. To prove him wrong you cited examples of
the US allegedly "crushing... democracy". In effect you have
conflated democracy and freedom.
shining light of freedom. To prove him wrong you cited examples of
the US allegedly "crushing... democracy". In effect you have
conflated democracy and freedom.
On the other hand you have cited some countries, such as Cuba, which
are not democratic and so whatever the merits of the US taking action
in such nations, it certainly doesn't constitute the crushing of
democracy.
are not democratic and so whatever the merits of the US taking action
in such nations, it certainly doesn't constitute the crushing of
democracy.
Weihana.
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Mo wrote:
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Its a technique designed to get the reader to use their own
imagination to manufacture a reason where there was none,
that relies on trust, trust that now no longer is present
because the technique has been abused so much too our
collective detriment.
imagination to manufacture a reason where there was none,
that relies on trust, trust that now no longer is present
because the technique has been abused so much too our
collective detriment.
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WD wrote:
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That's a lousy standard. One that over time will insure its
easily kept up with.
easily kept up with.
Torture is ok because we're nicer about it.
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"WD" <tuar...@woosh.co.nz> wrote in message
news:28516388-c489-4881-91bf-
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Weihana.
I wonder. Suppose the British Monarchy took it over again?
Very funny, but is there anything to stop them joining up with the
Commonwealth while keeping their own form of government?
Very funny, but is there anything to stop them joining up with the
Commonwealth while keeping their own form of government?
But if a serious world war starts up, the US will come in (after a couple of
years) to ensure the right side wins.
What sort of world would we have now if America had remained neutral
throughout WWII?
years) to ensure the right side wins.
What sort of world would we have now if America had remained neutral
throughout WWII?
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"hellicopter" <stone...@kol.co.nz> wrote in message
news:hq0p24$6ao$3@speranza.
news:hq0p24$6ao$3@speranza.
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I don't think that was his point at all.
If I understand what he's saying, then I agree: the US has many faults, in
it's dealings with the rest of the world, and probably internally as well.
it's dealings with the rest of the world, and probably internally as well.
Indeed, the use of torture is a "failing" - but many nations utilise torture
as part of their repertoire of intelligence gathering (the US at least
proclaims to prohibit its use, and I do believe they do not condone its use
by their security personel). Some nations, for example Israel, have admitted
the use torture as a part of their interrogation techniques.
as part of their repertoire of intelligence gathering (the US at least
proclaims to prohibit its use, and I do believe they do not condone its use
by their security personel). Some nations, for example Israel, have admitted
the use torture as a part of their interrogation techniques.
If there has to be a "dominant" nation in the world, the US is not the worst
that could befall us. In fact, it may be better with a dominant nation like
the US, than with no dominant nation at all.
that could befall us. In fact, it may be better with a dominant nation like
the US, than with no dominant nation at all.
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On Apr 13, 4:19 pm, "Peter K" <pe...@parcelvej.dk> wrote:
> "hellicopter" <stonesn...@kol.co.nz> wrote in message
Weihana.
> "hellicopter" <stonesn...@kol.co.nz> wrote in message
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Thank you Peter, that was essentially my point.
But hellicopter is right in a way, "better than the alternatives" is a
lousy standard. However, many of America's biggest critics are
Americans. The US doesn't just judge itself against others, it has an
ability for introspection that many nations lack. Despite its faults
it actively tries to fix them and it encourages open debate about its
actions and its future. Compare this to some of the so-called
"democracies" of the world.
lousy standard. However, many of America's biggest critics are
Americans. The US doesn't just judge itself against others, it has an
ability for introspection that many nations lack. Despite its faults
it actively tries to fix them and it encourages open debate about its
actions and its future. Compare this to some of the so-called
"democracies" of the world.
Weihana.
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WD wrote:
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Not when the alternative is freedom, no, it's not better.
--
A good End cannot sanctify evil Means; nor must we ever do Evil, that Good
may come of it. -William Penn
--
A good End cannot sanctify evil Means; nor must we ever do Evil, that Good
may come of it. -William Penn
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