Dissecting Keith Windschuttle (Part 1)
The following farrago of lies and stupid misreading comes from an
article entitled "The hypocrisy of Noam Chomsky", written by a dupe of
the rogue Bush administration called KEITH WINDSCHUTTLE. I'll deal
with some of the most glaring idiocies today and in posts to come;
perhaps others would like to point out some of Windschuttle's errors
(whether wilful or deliberate) that I have missed....
1: 'Noam Chomsky was the most conspicuous American intellectual to rationalize the Al Qaeda terrorist attacks on New York and Washington.'
article entitled "The hypocrisy of Noam Chomsky", written by a dupe of
the rogue Bush administration called KEITH WINDSCHUTTLE. I'll deal
with some of the most glaring idiocies today and in posts to come;
perhaps others would like to point out some of Windschuttle's errors
(whether wilful or deliberate) that I have missed....
1: 'Noam Chomsky was the most conspicuous American intellectual to rationalize the Al Qaeda terrorist attacks on New York and Washington.'
BREEN COMMENTS: Chomsky did not "rationalize" the terror attacks; he
condemned them. He merely pointed out what everybody except Fox
TV-watching cretins already knew: that this was the inevitable result
of the USA's unconscionable support for Israel.
condemned them. He merely pointed out what everybody except Fox
TV-watching cretins already knew: that this was the inevitable result
of the USA's unconscionable support for Israel.
2: 'The death toll, he argued, was minor compared to the list of Third World victims of the "far more extreme terrorism" of United States foreign policy.'
BREEN COMMENTS: That is beyond dispute, of course. Note
Windschuttle's cynical use of quotation marks, as if the terrorism of
the United States was a mere fancy of Chomsky's imagination.
Windschuttle's cynical use of quotation marks, as if the terrorism of
the United States was a mere fancy of Chomsky's imagination.
3: 'Despite its calculated affront to mainstream opinion...'
BREEN COMMENTS: Is that not what thinkers are expected to do?
Clearly, Windschuttle is disturbed by dissent, and thinks ALL writers
and academics should just parrot the government (i.e. "mainstream")
line; is he not satisfied that nearly the whole of the mainstream
media, from rabid chickenhawks like Bill O'Reilly to the tame,
unquestioning "embedded" reporters in Iraq, does exactly that?
Clearly, Windschuttle is disturbed by dissent, and thinks ALL writers
and academics should just parrot the government (i.e. "mainstream")
line; is he not satisfied that nearly the whole of the mainstream
media, from rabid chickenhawks like Bill O'Reilly to the tame,
unquestioning "embedded" reporters in Iraq, does exactly that?
4: 'Meanwhile, the liberal news media around the world...'
BREEN COMMENTS: See the way that Windschuttle disparagingly refers to
the "liberal" media, as if free thought is a bad thing. He seems
proud to be a bigot.
the "liberal" media, as if free thought is a bad thing. He seems
proud to be a bigot.
5: 'Today, when actors, rock stars, and protesting students mouth anti-American slogans for the cameras...'
BREEN COMMENTS: Windschuttle is, cynically and dishonestly,
conflating criticism of the rogue Bush administration with being
"anti-American". The Nazis pulled this "patriotism" malarkey too.
conflating criticism of the rogue Bush administration with being
"anti-American". The Nazis pulled this "patriotism" malarkey too.
6: '.... they are very often expressing sentiments they have gleaned from Chomsky's voluminous output.'
BREEN COMMENTS: No, they usually are not. If they read a little
Chomsky, they would have a little more intellectual heft behind their
arguments, instead of being bamboozled into embarrassing backdowns
and/or blithering qualifications of what they have said: vide the
Dixie Chicks and Johnny Depp.
Chomsky, they would have a little more intellectual heft behind their
arguments, instead of being bamboozled into embarrassing backdowns
and/or blithering qualifications of what they have said: vide the
Dixie Chicks and Johnny Depp.
7: "....he lost some of his appeal in the late-1970s and 1980s by his defense of the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia..."
BREEN COMMENTS: The United States government supported Pol Pot,
simply because he was an enemy of Vietnam, who had just humiliated the
U.S. into a grovelling withdrawal. Chomsky never supported pol Pot.
Now, this fellow Windschuttle either (a) knows that, which confirms
him as the liar I think he is; or (b) really thinks Chomsky did
support the Khmer Rouge, which makes him incompetent. Either way,
Windschuttle has no place in any serious discussion of this matter.
simply because he was an enemy of Vietnam, who had just humiliated the
U.S. into a grovelling withdrawal. Chomsky never supported pol Pot.
Now, this fellow Windschuttle either (a) knows that, which confirms
him as the liar I think he is; or (b) really thinks Chomsky did
support the Khmer Rouge, which makes him incompetent. Either way,
Windschuttle has no place in any serious discussion of this matter.
8: '...he has used September 11 to restore his reputation...'
BREEN COMMENTS: No he has not. George W. Bush and Rudolf Giuliani
did though. Chomsky's reputation and standing in the academic
community was assured long before 2001.
did though. Chomsky's reputation and standing in the academic
community was assured long before 2001.
9: 'Chomsky... advocates the pursuit of truth and knowledge about human affairs and promotes a simple, universal set of moral principles. Moreover, his political writings are very clear, pitched to a general rather than specialist audience. He supports his claims not by appeals to some esoteric conceptual apparatus but by presenting plain, apparently factual evidence.'
BREEN COMMENTS: The above paragraph is almost completely correct, but
for Windschuttle's weaselish employment of the word "apparently".
Windschuttle thinks he's being clever. Apparently.
for Windschuttle's weaselish employment of the word "apparently".
Windschuttle thinks he's being clever. Apparently.
10: 'Chomsky is the most prominent intellectual remnant of the New
Left of the 1960s. In many ways he epitomized the New Left and its
hatred of "Amerika," a country he believed, through its policies both
at home and abroad, had descended into fascism. In his most famous
book of the Sixties, American Power and the New Mandarins, Chomsky
said what America needed was "a kind of denazification."
Left of the 1960s. In many ways he epitomized the New Left and its
hatred of "Amerika," a country he believed, through its policies both
at home and abroad, had descended into fascism. In his most famous
book of the Sixties, American Power and the New Mandarins, Chomsky
said what America needed was "a kind of denazification."
Of all the major powers in the Sixties, according to Chomsky, America
was the most reprehensible. Its principles of liberal democracy were a
sham. Its democracy was a "four-year dictatorship" and its economic
commitment to free markets was merely a disguise for corporate power.
Its foreign policy was positively evil. "By any objective standard,"
he wrote at the time, "the United States has become the most
aggressive power in the world, the greatest threat to peace, to
national self-determination, and to international cooperation."
was the most reprehensible. Its principles of liberal democracy were a
sham. Its democracy was a "four-year dictatorship" and its economic
commitment to free markets was merely a disguise for corporate power.
Its foreign policy was positively evil. "By any objective standard,"
he wrote at the time, "the United States has become the most
aggressive power in the world, the greatest threat to peace, to
national self-determination, and to international cooperation."
As an anti-war activist, Chomsky participated in some of the most
publicized demonstrations, including the attempt, famously celebrated
in Norman Mailer's Armies of the Night, to form a human chain around
the Pentagon. Chomsky described the event as "tens of thousands of
young people surrounding what they believe to be—I must add that I
agree—the most hideous institution on this earth."
publicized demonstrations, including the attempt, famously celebrated
in Norman Mailer's Armies of the Night, to form a human chain around
the Pentagon. Chomsky described the event as "tens of thousands of
young people surrounding what they believe to be—I must add that I
agree—the most hideous institution on this earth."
BREEN COMMENTS: That's all perfectly true. Windschuttle might not
have a first-rate mind, but when he is not trying to be clever, he
summarizes Chomsky very well. But then - DARN it all! - Windschuttle
puts his blundering big foot in it...
have a first-rate mind, but when he is not trying to be clever, he
summarizes Chomsky very well. But then - DARN it all! - Windschuttle
puts his blundering big foot in it...
'This kind of anti-Americanism...' he burbles.
BREEN RE-ITERATES: To criticize the fascistic behaviour of American
GOVERNMENT is not being "anti-American"; it's being anti-fascist.
GOVERNMENT is not being "anti-American"; it's being anti-fascist.
If you want to see the kind of "intellectual" (for want of a better
word) that was willingly/unwittingly co-opted by the Nazi propaganda
machine, Keith Windschuttle is an example par excellence.
word) that was willingly/unwittingly co-opted by the Nazi propaganda
machine, Keith Windschuttle is an example par excellence.
TO BE CONTINUED...
------------------------------
------------------------------
Windschuttle's nonsense comes from a dishonest article he wrote for
the New Criterion Vol. 21, No. 9, May 2003
©2003 The New Criterion www.newcriterion.com
The URL for the substandard original item is:
http://www.newcriterion.com/
the New Criterion Vol. 21, No. 9, May 2003
©2003 The New Criterion www.newcriterion.com
The URL for the substandard original item is:
http://www.newcriterion.com/
 |
Morrissey Breen wrote:
Thanks for the link, Mr Breen. Great article! :-)
|
1: 'Noam Chomsky was the most conspicuous American intellectual to
rationalize the Al Qaeda terrorist attacks on New York and
BREEN COMMENTS: Chomsky did not "rationalize" the terror attacks; he
condemned them. He merely pointed out what everybody except Fox
TV-watching cretins already knew: that this was the inevitable result
of the USA's unconscionable support for Israel.
condemned them. He merely pointed out what everybody except Fox
TV-watching cretins already knew: that this was the inevitable result
of the USA's unconscionable support for Israel.
Frankie's comment: Breen's mystical logics was quite differant from mine.If
Chomsky already knew that USA support for Isreal was the inevitable result
of Al Qaeda Terrorisms,...Can we not understand it as "rationalize the
terror attacks?"
Chomsky already knew that USA support for Isreal was the inevitable result
of Al Qaeda Terrorisms,...Can we not understand it as "rationalize the
terror attacks?"
USA support Isreal.Terrorism attack USA because USA support of Isreal.This
is the reason that USA suffered 9/11.
Terrorists attack USA's allies,because Allies like
Turkey,Arabia,Kuwait..etc...
is the reason that USA suffered 9/11.
Terrorists attack USA's allies,because Allies like
Turkey,Arabia,Kuwait..etc...
Muslim Terrorists attack moderate-Muslims,because they work in WTC,in
USA,and they know that Muslims must died with Americans.
USA,and they know that Muslims must died with Americans.
The Muslim-Terrorists are not evil.They are not full of hatred,because of
grudge,and not because of insanity and evils.They are rationalize people,who
think that because USA supported Isreal,so USA and its allies must be
bomb.If USA did not support Isreal,there won't be any attacks by Terrorists.
grudge,and not because of insanity and evils.They are rationalize people,who
think that because USA supported Isreal,so USA and its allies must be
bomb.If USA did not support Isreal,there won't be any attacks by Terrorists.
Bangladesh did not support Isreal,but Terrorist bomb them.Arab did not
support Isreal,Terrorist bomb them....
support Isreal,Terrorist bomb them....
I tried to show the simplistics and foolish Chomsky opinions about 9/11 and
Terrorists agendas.
Terrorists agendas.
Evil doers can find any cause and any reasons to do indiscriminate
killings,and they can never be justified,or be defended,by even suggesting a
defense for them in that they do it with the perceptions that USA is unjust
towards Palestinians.Any hint of defense for them,and trying to justify
their evil cause or reasons,that is just plain stupid.
killings,and they can never be justified,or be defended,by even suggesting a
defense for them in that they do it with the perceptions that USA is unjust
towards Palestinians.Any hint of defense for them,and trying to justify
their evil cause or reasons,that is just plain stupid.
Basically,Terrorists hate USA was for his Righteousness.USA stood up for the
Muslims in Serbia.USA stood up for Muslim Kuwait.USA rescue Muslims from Tyr
anny.USA supported a nation Isreal bullied by many states in this world.USA
is a Policeman of the world.
USA is free nation,and is the leader of a free world,where theirs is a world
tormented by fears and live a life of fugitives,with no rest or peace in
their hearts.
Muslims in Serbia.USA stood up for Muslim Kuwait.USA rescue Muslims from Tyr
anny.USA supported a nation Isreal bullied by many states in this world.USA
is a Policeman of the world.
USA is free nation,and is the leader of a free world,where theirs is a world
tormented by fears and live a life of fugitives,with no rest or peace in
their hearts.
President Bush rightly put it,"They hate us for our Freedom".
==============================
======.
======.
Morrissey Breen"
<morriss...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fb3a0456.0312272115.
- show quoted text -
> agree-the most hideous institution on this earth."
>
> BREEN COMMENTS: That's all perfectly true. Windschuttle might not
> have a first-rate mind, but when he is not trying to be clever, he
> summarizes Chomsky very well. But then - DARN it all! - Windschuttle
> puts his blundering big foot in it...
>
> 'This kind of anti-Americanism...' he burbles.
>
> BREEN RE-ITERATES: To criticize the fascistic behaviour of American
> GOVERNMENT is not being "anti-American"; it's being anti-fascist.
>
> If you want to see the kind of "intellectual" (for want of a better
> word) that was willingly/unwittingly co-opted by the Nazi propaganda
> machine, Keith Windschuttle is an example par excellence.
>
> TO BE CONTINUED...
> ------------------------------
-----
>
> Windschuttle's nonsense comes from a dishonest article he wrote for
> the New Criterion Vol. 21, No. 9, May 2003
> ©2003 The New Criterion www.newcriterion.com
> The URL for the substandard original item is:
> http://www.newcriterion.com/
|
Morrissey Breen wrote:
> Dissecting Keith Windschuttle (Part 1)
"I see no anti-Semitic implications in denial of the existence of gas
chambers, or even denial of the holocaust. Nor would there be
anti-Semitic implications, per se, in the claim that the holocaust
(whether one believes it took place or not) is being exploited,
viciously so, by apologists for Israeli repression and violence. I see no
hint of anti-Semitic implications in Faurisson's work ..."
chambers, or even denial of the holocaust. Nor would there be
anti-Semitic implications, per se, in the claim that the holocaust
(whether one believes it took place or not) is being exploited,
viciously so, by apologists for Israeli repression and violence. I see no
hint of anti-Semitic implications in Faurisson's work ..."
Adolf Chomsky
|
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:47:27 +1300, John Cawston <rewa...@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
wrote:
>"I see no anti-Semitic implications in denial of the existence of gas
>chambers, or even denial of the holocaust. Nor would there be
>anti-Semitic implications, per se, in the claim that the holocaust
>(whether one believes it took place or not) is being exploited,
>viciously so, by apologists for Israeli repression and violence. I see no
>hint of anti-Semitic implications in Faurisson's work ..."
>
>Adolf Chomsky
>chambers, or even denial of the holocaust. Nor would there be
>anti-Semitic implications, per se, in the claim that the holocaust
>(whether one believes it took place or not) is being exploited,
>viciously so, by apologists for Israeli repression and violence. I see no
>hint of anti-Semitic implications in Faurisson's work ..."
>
>Adolf Chomsky
This Adolf Chomsky has a brother who predicted 3-4million civilian
deaths due to the American liberation of that country. What a pair of
fuckwits.
deaths due to the American liberation of that country. What a pair of
fuckwits.
David
|
John Cawston <rewa...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:<3FEE8A8F...@ihug.
- show quoted text -
Chomsky is reiterating the right to open questioning of ALL historical
facts. That's called liberal enquiry. As in freedom. Maybe you've
heard of it. Note that Chomsky himself nowhere denies the fact of
holocaust. He is, after all, Jewish. Maybe you don' know that.
facts. That's called liberal enquiry. As in freedom. Maybe you've
heard of it. Note that Chomsky himself nowhere denies the fact of
holocaust. He is, after all, Jewish. Maybe you don' know that.
And Chomsky rightly, like most people, is disgusted by the hijacking,
manipulation and exploitation of the holocaust by Zionist fanatics.
manipulation and exploitation of the holocaust by Zionist fanatics.
What's your problem?
|
"FRANKIE LEE" <s964...@singnet.com.sg> forced out a load of nonsense
in message news:<bslrsi$ts6$1...@mawar.
>
> Frankie's comment: Breen's mystical logics
in message news:<bslrsi$ts6$1...@mawar.
>
> Frankie's comment: Breen's mystical logics
[sic!
>
> was quite differant
> was quite differant
[sic!]
>
> from mine.If Chomsky already knew that USA support for Isreal
> from mine.If Chomsky already knew that USA support for Isreal
[sic!]
>
> was the inevitable...
> was the inevitable...
Okay, okay, okay! I'll stop picking on your second-language errors.
But I will say this: we need your extreme right wing South Korean
craziness in this forum like we need another post from Berend de
freaking Boer.
But I will say this: we need your extreme right wing South Korean
craziness in this forum like we need another post from Berend de
freaking Boer.
>
> President Bush rightly put it,"They hate us for our Freedom".
> President Bush rightly put it,"They hate us for our Freedom".
Crap. That's is the same nonsense as the apologists for invading
Vietnam were spouting throughout the 1960s and 70s. But you, being a
thoroughly indoctrinated South Korean, would not even be aware of the
irony of your quote from that bonehead.
Vietnam were spouting throughout the 1960s and 70s. But you, being a
thoroughly indoctrinated South Korean, would not even be aware of the
irony of your quote from that bonehead.
Now get back to your English study and, while you're at it, read
something intelligent. And for heaven'sw sake, don't believe what the
glib and ignorant nutters on Fox or CNN keep telling you....
something intelligent. And for heaven'sw sake, don't believe what the
glib and ignorant nutters on Fox or CNN keep telling you....
|
- show quoted text -
- show quoted text -
Oops... "that country" = Afghanistan.
David
|
Morrissey Breen wrote:
>
> Dissecting Keith Windschuttle (Part 1)
>
> The following farrago of lies and stupid misreading comes from an
> article entitled "The hypocrisy of Noam Chomsky",
>
> Dissecting Keith Windschuttle (Part 1)
>
> The following farrago of lies and stupid misreading comes from an
> article entitled "The hypocrisy of Noam Chomsky",
The lies and misreading all are
>written by a dupe
rogue calling himself "Morrissey Breen"
>written by a dupe
rogue calling himself "Morrissey Breen"
> I'll deal
> with some of the most glaring idiocies
> with some of the most glaring idiocies
All the "idiocies" are the product of Breen's lunacy.
Everything Breen says is the obverse of fact
> 1: 'Noam Chomsky was the most conspicuous American intellectual to
> rationalize the Al Qaeda terrorist attacks on New York and
> Washington.'
> rationalize the Al Qaeda terrorist attacks on New York and
> Washington.'
Fact. -- Breen denies it
<the rest of Breen's idiocy snipped>
--
--
As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
For those of our race - the historic victims of so many
causes - it would be disastrous to make the same
mistake twice, and entrust our children's fate to the
hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
For those of our race - the historic victims of so many
causes - it would be disastrous to make the same
mistake twice, and entrust our children's fate to the
hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
|
Morrissey Breen wrote:
>
> John Cawston <rewa...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:<3FEE8A8F...@ihug.
> > Morrissey Breen wrote:
> >
> > > Dissecting Keith Windschuttle (Part 1)
> >
> > "I see no anti-Semitic implications in denial of the existence of gas
> > chambers, or even denial of the holocaust. Nor would there be
> > anti-Semitic implications, per se, in the claim that the holocaust
> > (whether one believes it took place or not) is being exploited,
> > viciously so, by apologists for Israeli repression and violence. I see no
> > hint of anti-Semitic implications in Faurisson's work ..."
> >
> > Adolf Chomsky
>
> Chomsky is reiterating the right to open questioning of ALL historical
> facts. That's called liberal enquiry.
>
> John Cawston <rewa...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:<3FEE8A8F...@ihug.
> > Morrissey Breen wrote:
> >
> > > Dissecting Keith Windschuttle (Part 1)
> >
> > "I see no anti-Semitic implications in denial of the existence of gas
> > chambers, or even denial of the holocaust. Nor would there be
> > anti-Semitic implications, per se, in the claim that the holocaust
> > (whether one believes it took place or not) is being exploited,
> > viciously so, by apologists for Israeli repression and violence. I see no
> > hint of anti-Semitic implications in Faurisson's work ..."
> >
> > Adolf Chomsky
>
> Chomsky is reiterating the right to open questioning of ALL historical
> facts. That's called liberal enquiry.
No that is called "revisionism".
"revisionism" = obverse of historical fact
--
As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
For those of our race - the historic victims of so many
causes - it would be disastrous to make the same
mistake twice, and entrust our children's fate to the
hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
For those of our race - the historic victims of so many
causes - it would be disastrous to make the same
mistake twice, and entrust our children's fate to the
hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
|
red...@suntimesmail.com wrote:
>
> Morrissey Breen wrote:
>
>>Dissecting Keith Windschuttle (Part 1)
>>
>>The following farrago of lies and stupid misreading comes from an
>>article entitled "The hypocrisy of Noam Chomsky",
>
>
> The lies and misreading all are
>
>>written by a dupe
>
> rogue calling himself "Morrissey Breen"
>
>
>>I'll deal
>>with some of the most glaring idiocies
>
>
> All the "idiocies" are the product of Breen's lunacy.
>
> Everything Breen says is the obverse of fact
>
>
>>1: 'Noam Chomsky was the most conspicuous American intellectual to
>>rationalize the Al Qaeda terrorist attacks on New York and
>>Washington.'
>
>
> Fact. -- Breen denies it
> Morrissey Breen wrote:
>
>>Dissecting Keith Windschuttle (Part 1)
>>
>>The following farrago of lies and stupid misreading comes from an
>>article entitled "The hypocrisy of Noam Chomsky",
>
>
> The lies and misreading all are
>
>>written by a dupe
>
> rogue calling himself "Morrissey Breen"
>
>
>>I'll deal
>>with some of the most glaring idiocies
>
>
> All the "idiocies" are the product of Breen's lunacy.
>
> Everything Breen says is the obverse of fact
>
>
>>1: 'Noam Chomsky was the most conspicuous American intellectual to
>>rationalize the Al Qaeda terrorist attacks on New York and
>>Washington.'
>
>
> Fact. -- Breen denies it
Does "rationalize" mean "explain"? As I recall, Chomsky attempted to
explain Sept 11. At the time, the feeling was that even to attempt to
explain such a horrendous event was treasonous. More rational people
saw that an attempt at explanation was not just reasonable, it was
essential.
explain Sept 11. At the time, the feeling was that even to attempt to
explain such a horrendous event was treasonous. More rational people
saw that an attempt at explanation was not just reasonable, it was
essential.
US exceptionalism allows them to believe that such a horrific event was
unprecedented in human history. I learned a few days ago that a single
night of American Superfortress incendiary bombing of Tokyo killed an
estimated 100,000 civilians and left a million homeless. Similar
actions against German cities (Dresden, Hamburg) killed almost as many.
unprecedented in human history. I learned a few days ago that a single
night of American Superfortress incendiary bombing of Tokyo killed an
estimated 100,000 civilians and left a million homeless. Similar
actions against German cities (Dresden, Hamburg) killed almost as many.
Chomsky is a dissident, the kind of person we celebrated in the Soviet
Union for example. He draws our attention to uncomfortable truths,
facts that we'd rather ignore. He encourages questioning of the
official line, making him a traitor in some people's eyes. We are
fortunate that he exists.
Union for example. He draws our attention to uncomfortable truths,
facts that we'd rather ignore. He encourages questioning of the
official line, making him a traitor in some people's eyes. We are
fortunate that he exists.
Gib
|
"Redbaiter" <do...@email.me> wrote in message
news:3fee8444@news.orcon.net.
> Morrissey Breen says
> >
> > BREEN COMMENTS: Is that not what thinkers are expected to do?
> > Clearly, Windschuttle is disturbed by dissent, and thinks ALL writers
> > and academics should just parrot the government (i.e. "mainstream")
> > line; is he not satisfied that nearly the whole of the mainstream
> > media, from rabid chickenhawks like Bill O'Reilly to the tame,
> > unquestioning "embedded" reporters in Iraq, does exactly that?
> >
> > 4: 'Meanwhile, the liberal news media around the world...'
> >
> > BREEN COMMENTS: See the way that Windschuttle disparagingly refers to
> > the "liberal" media, as if free thought is a bad thing. He seems
> > proud to be a bigot.
> >
> onslaught of lies Mowwisey, that I'll even challenge this one.
>
> Here's some crap I posted the other day which shows clearly that
> your lies about the media are only designed to give your leftist
> buddies therein a bit of a break from the pressure of the
> growing dissatisfaction with their leftist bigotry.
>
> As a commie propagandist Mowwisey, you get full marks for
> effort, but zero for effect. Your lies are far too transparent.
>
> --------------------------
>
> BBC political editor Andrew Marr has admitted the corporation
> suffers from a liberal bias. Guardian 09/10/03 John Plunkett
>
Sorry dude Andrew Marr is no more than a media whore,
he does what he's told, as does the BBC.
The BBC was 100% behind the illegal invasion of Iraq.
he does what he's told, as does the BBC.
The BBC was 100% behind the illegal invasion of Iraq.
I followed the BBC at the time, and was appalled by it's pro-war bias.
The 'Liberal bias' bullshit is just that, bullshit.
--
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
|
"FRANKIE LEE" <s964...@singnet.com.sg> wrote in message
news:bslrsi$ts6$1@mawar.
>
>
> President Bush rightly put it,"They hate us for our Freedom".
> President Bush rightly put it,"They hate us for our Freedom".
No, they hate you for your continuing support of
terrorist oranisations throughout the world .
terrorist oranisations throughout the world .
Bin-Laden was A C.I.A. creation, or have you conveniently forgotten that ?
--
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
|
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:45:39 +0930, David Pears
<dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote:
<dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>This Adolf Chomsky has a brother who predicted 3-4million civilian
>>deaths due to the American liberation of that country. What a pair of
>>fuckwits.
>
>Oops... "that country" = Afghanistan.
The count isn't complete yet, Mr. Pears. Give them some time. they've
got two middle eastern countries to get under their thumbs.
*****
Why is it that when we talk to God we're said to be praying, but when
God talks to us we're schizophrenic? -- Lily Tomlin
*****
got two middle eastern countries to get under their thumbs.
*****
Why is it that when we talk to God we're said to be praying, but when
God talks to us we're schizophrenic? -- Lily Tomlin
*****
|
A muddleheaded fellow calling himself, ludicrously,
red...@suntimesmail.com tried (unwisely) to be clever in message
news:<3FEEE9E6...@
>
> "revisionism" = obverse of historical fact
red...@suntimesmail.com tried (unwisely) to be clever in message
news:<3FEEE9E6...@
>
> No that is called "revisionism".
> No that is called "revisionism".
Errrrr.... methinks we've found another dope who can't, or won't, read
Chomsky and understand him.
Chomsky and understand him.
>
> "revisionism" = obverse of historical fact
Not quite. You can't even get THAT right.
MEMO REDLEN: This is how you stop making an ass of yourself on
Usenet...
Usenet...
1.) Get down to your local library NOW.
2.) Take out a membership card (yep - somethin' tells moi that you
don't go near libraries very often. Am I right... or am I right?)
3.) Get out, say, FIVE books.
4.) Make sure at least one of them is by Noam Chomsky.
5.) Sit down and R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-READ!!
6.) Think.
7.) Then read ANOTHER book.
8.) THINK!
9.) Whatever you do during this quiet time, DO NOT POST ON USENET and
DO NOT RING RUSH LIMBAUGH.
10.) R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-READ, READ, READ SOME MORE. And, for heaven's
sake: THINK.
2.) Take out a membership card (yep - somethin' tells moi that you
don't go near libraries very often. Am I right... or am I right?)
3.) Get out, say, FIVE books.
4.) Make sure at least one of them is by Noam Chomsky.
5.) Sit down and R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-READ!!
6.) Think.
7.) Then read ANOTHER book.
8.) THINK!
9.) Whatever you do during this quiet time, DO NOT POST ON USENET and
DO NOT RING RUSH LIMBAUGH.
10.) R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-READ, READ, READ SOME MORE. And, for heaven's
sake: THINK.
|
"Morrissey Breen" <morriss...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
- show quoted text -
Damn good advice that !
--
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
|
Jez says
Yes, that's clearly your opinion, but proving it correct is
something you appear to have very little idea of.
- show quoted text -
something you appear to have very little idea of.
Like Mowwisey, you appear to believe that a screed of opinion is
the same as fact. I posted plenty of support for my view that
the press are left liberals and distorting reports on the war.
You posted nothing but your opinion.
the same as fact. I posted plenty of support for my view that
the press are left liberals and distorting reports on the war.
You posted nothing but your opinion.
Like Mowwisey's it appears to be based on bigotry, and its
therefore worthless. But keep posting it. No problems with
opinions. They're like arseholes, everybody has one.
therefore worthless. But keep posting it. No problems with
opinions. They're like arseholes, everybody has one.
--
Redbaiter
In the leftist's lexicon, the lowest of the low
Redbaiter
In the leftist's lexicon, the lowest of the low
|
Jez wrote:
- show quoted text -
"Well lookee here. Got me two of them there Chomskyites, Jed."
"Yeah, Bubba? Now what's them folks' names?"
"All I knows is one of them's called Jez."
"Jez?"
"Yup. Jez, Jed."
|
"Redbaiter" <do...@email.me> wrote in message
- show quoted text -
Well, here's a place for you to start your education....
http://www.medialens.org/
http://www.medialens.org/
But for some backround you should aslo plough through
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/
Manufacturing Consent is a must watch too.
>
> Like Mowwisey, you appear to believe that a screed of opinion is
> the same as fact. I posted plenty of support for my view that
> the press are left liberals and distorting reports on the war.
> Like Mowwisey, you appear to believe that a screed of opinion is
> the same as fact. I posted plenty of support for my view that
> the press are left liberals and distorting reports on the war.
Where ?
> You posted nothing but your opinion.
My opinion based on what I have read, probably formedin the same manner as your opinions.
(If you read books rather than rely on sources like the TV)
>
> Like Mowwisey's it appears to be based on bigotry, and its
> therefore worthless. But keep posting it. No problems with
> opinions. They're like arseholes, everybody has one.
>
Arrogant twit...piss off.> Like Mowwisey's it appears to be based on bigotry, and its
> therefore worthless. But keep posting it. No problems with
> opinions. They're like arseholes, everybody has one.
>
--
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
|
"LeftAintRight" <kda...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:bsnlem$j8u$1@lust.ihug.
> Jez wrote:
>
> > "Morrissey Breen" <morriss...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:fb3a0456.0312281320.
>
> "Well lookee here. Got me two of them there Chomskyites, Jed."
>
> "Yeah, Bubba? Now what's them folks' names?"
>
> "All I knows is one of them's called Jez."
>
> "Jez?"
>
> "Yup. Jez, Jed."
>
> "Yeah, Bubba? Now what's them folks' names?"
>
> "All I knows is one of them's called Jez."
>
> "Jez?"
>
> "Yup. Jez, Jed."
Urmmm, pardon my confusion, but your point being?
--
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
|
Jez says
> >
> Arrogant twit...piss off.
>
>
Arrogant?
> Arrogant twit...piss off.
>
>
Arrogant?
Why?
Because I hold leftists in utter contempt?
Because I see leftists as liars and propaganda agents?
Sorry buddy, but your pathetic posts are not going to do fuck
all to change my mind. In fact, the make me even more sure I
have it right.
all to change my mind. In fact, the make me even more sure I
have it right.
--
Redbaiter
In the leftist's lexicon, the lowest of the low
Redbaiter
In the leftist's lexicon, the lowest of the low
|
David Pears <dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote in message news:<rjbtuvsbp2ritivn28c01jde
>
> This Adolf Chomsky has a brother who predicted 3-4million civilian
> deaths due to the American liberation of that country. What a pair of
> fuckwits.
>
> This Adolf Chomsky has a brother who predicted 3-4million civilian
> deaths due to the American liberation of that country. What a pair of
> fuckwits.
Is this "liberation" that you blither about a new word for killing
them?
them?
As in...
CHECKPOINT CHARLIE: Sarge, I jes' KILLED a vehicle full o' women and
chillun. [sobs]
chillun. [sobs]
SARGE: [chomps on cigar] Naw, son, you jes' LIBERATED 'EM!!!! Haw,
haw, haw, haw, haw!
haw, haw, haw, haw!
CHECKPOINT CHARLIE: [weeping] But... but... but, Sarge... I jes'
KILLED a whole VEHICLE full o' women an' chillun. LOOOOOOK!
KILLED a whole VEHICLE full o' women an' chillun. LOOOOOOK!
SARGE: Don't worry son - you wuz jes' followin' orders. An' besides -
they didn't stop at the fuckin' checkpoint, so FUCK 'EM!
they didn't stop at the fuckin' checkpoint, so FUCK 'EM!
CHECKPOINT CHARLIE: [slowly] "I ... lib-er-ated ... 'em." Say, I
kinda LIKE the sound o' that, Sarge.
kinda LIKE the sound o' that, Sarge.
SARGE: You just remember to tell that to our pet - sorry, "embedded"
- reporter from TIME, in case he sniffs round askin' any awkward
questions. Which he probably won't! Haw, haw, haw, haw, haw!
- reporter from TIME, in case he sniffs round askin' any awkward
questions. Which he probably won't! Haw, haw, haw, haw, haw!
CHECKPOINT CHARLIE: Haw, haw, haw, haw, haw!
SARGE: Now clean up that fuckin' mess, boy, an' we'll sweep this one
under the rug.
under the rug.
CHECKPOINT CHARLIE: Like all the other ones, Sarge!
SARGE: You're darn tootin', boy! An' remember - that tame reporter
of ours from TIME magazine comes pokin' his nose in our business, what
do we tell 'im?
of ours from TIME magazine comes pokin' his nose in our business, what
do we tell 'im?
CHECKPOINT CHARLIE: [thinks hard for several seconds] We tell 'im:
"We're here to bring DEMOCRACY to the people of Africa -"
"We're here to bring DEMOCRACY to the people of Africa -"
SARGE: [rolling eyes impatiently] AfGHANISTAN, boy!
CHECKPOINT CHARLIE: [slowly, carefully] "We're ... here ... to ...
bring ... DEMOCRACY ... to ... the ... people ... of ...
Af-guinea-stan - "
bring ... DEMOCRACY ... to ... the ... people ... of ...
Af-guinea-stan - "
SARGE: [throws cigar in Afghani dust in exasperation] AFGHANISTAN,
you FREAKIN' moron!
you FREAKIN' moron!
CHECKPOINT CHARLIE: [flustered] We're ... here... to... awwww
shucks, Sarge - we're here to kill as many goddam' ragheads as we can.
shucks, Sarge - we're here to kill as many goddam' ragheads as we can.
SARGE: [breathing out, resignedly] Well, least you's honest, boy.
..............................
|
"Redbaiter" <do...@email.me> wrote in message
> Jez says
>
> > >
> > Arrogant twit...piss off.
> >
> >
> Arrogant?
>
> Why?
Your attitude. You know better because you know nothing, great !
>
> Because I hold leftists in utter contempt?
That just shows your stupididty.
>
> Because I see leftists as liars and propaganda agents?
> Because I see leftists as liars and propaganda agents?
Again, just showing your stupidity.
>
> Sorry buddy, but your pathetic posts are not going to do fuck
> all to change my mind.
> Sorry buddy, but your pathetic posts are not going to do fuck
> all to change my mind.
What mind ? That sponge you have in your head that
soaks up all the propaganda that you see...
soaks up all the propaganda that you see...
Your a joke dude, sorry.
>In fact, the make me even more sure I
> have it right.
>
Keep on deluding yourself, it's a free country.> have it right.
>
--
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
|
Jez wrote:
> "LeftAintRight" <kda...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:bsnlem$j8u$1@lust.ihug.
>
>>Jez wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Morrissey Breen" <morriss...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:fb3a0456.0312281320.
>>
>>"Well lookee here. Got me two of them there Chomskyites, Jed."
>>
>>"Yeah, Bubba? Now what's them folks' names?"
>>
>>"All I knows is one of them's called Jez."
>>
>>"Jez?"
>>
>>"Yup. Jez, Jed."
>
>
> Urmmm, pardon my confusion, but your point being?
>
> "LeftAintRight" <kda...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:bsnlem$j8u$1@lust.ihug.
>
>>Jez wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Morrissey Breen" <morriss...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:fb3a0456.0312281320.
>>
>>"Well lookee here. Got me two of them there Chomskyites, Jed."
>>
>>"Yeah, Bubba? Now what's them folks' names?"
>>
>>"All I knows is one of them's called Jez."
>>
>>"Jez?"
>>
>>"Yup. Jez, Jed."
>
>
> Urmmm, pardon my confusion, but your point being?
>
No point. As Tony Soprano would say, I'm just bustin' your balls.
Besides I think it's great that a senile old guy like Chomsky has a fan,
I mean fans (can't forget about Mr Breen).
Besides I think it's great that a senile old guy like Chomsky has a fan,
I mean fans (can't forget about Mr Breen).
|
Morrissey Breen wrote:
- show quoted text -
He is the Marc Antony of our age. He says one thing and means another. He always tries to
leave an out for himself. But he remains the essential Marc, an apologist for tyrants.
leave an out for himself. But he remains the essential Marc, an apologist for tyrants.
JC
|
Gib Bogle wrote:
>
> red...@suntimesmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Morrissey Breen wrote:
> >
> >>Dissecting Keith Windschuttle (Part 1)
> >>
> >>The following farrago of lies and stupid misreading comes from an
> >>article entitled "The hypocrisy of Noam Chomsky",
> >
> >
> > The lies and misreading all are
> >
> >>written by a dupe
> >
> > rogue calling himself "Morrissey Breen"
> >
> >
> >>I'll deal
> >>with some of the most glaring idiocies
> >
> >
> > All the "idiocies" are the product of Breen's lunacy.
> >
> > Everything Breen says is the obverse of fact
> >
> >
> >>1: 'Noam Chomsky was the most conspicuous American intellectual to
> >>rationalize the Al Qaeda terrorist attacks on New York and
> >>Washington.'
> >
> >
> > Fact. -- Breen denies it
>
> Does "rationalize" mean "explain"? As I recall, Chomsky attempted to
> explain Sept 11. At the time, the feeling was that even to attempt to
> explain such a horrendous event was treasonous. More rational people
> saw that an attempt at explanation was not just reasonable, it was
> essential.
>
> US exceptionalism allows them to believe that such a horrific event was
> unprecedented in human history. I learned a few days ago that a single
> night of American Superfortress incendiary bombing of Tokyo killed an
> estimated 100,000 civilians and left a million homeless. Similar
> actions against German cities (Dresden, Hamburg) killed almost as many.
>
> Chomsky is a dissident, the kind of person we celebrated in the Soviet
> Union for example. He draws our attention to uncomfortable truths,
> facts that we'd rather ignore. He encourages questioning of the
> official line, making him a traitor in some people's eyes. We are
> fortunate that he exists.
>
> red...@suntimesmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Morrissey Breen wrote:
> >
> >>Dissecting Keith Windschuttle (Part 1)
> >>
> >>The following farrago of lies and stupid misreading comes from an
> >>article entitled "The hypocrisy of Noam Chomsky",
> >
> >
> > The lies and misreading all are
> >
> >>written by a dupe
> >
> > rogue calling himself "Morrissey Breen"
> >
> >
> >>I'll deal
> >>with some of the most glaring idiocies
> >
> >
> > All the "idiocies" are the product of Breen's lunacy.
> >
> > Everything Breen says is the obverse of fact
> >
> >
> >>1: 'Noam Chomsky was the most conspicuous American intellectual to
> >>rationalize the Al Qaeda terrorist attacks on New York and
> >>Washington.'
> >
> >
> > Fact. -- Breen denies it
>
> Does "rationalize" mean "explain"? As I recall, Chomsky attempted to
> explain Sept 11. At the time, the feeling was that even to attempt to
> explain such a horrendous event was treasonous. More rational people
> saw that an attempt at explanation was not just reasonable, it was
> essential.
>
> US exceptionalism allows them to believe that such a horrific event was
> unprecedented in human history. I learned a few days ago that a single
> night of American Superfortress incendiary bombing of Tokyo killed an
> estimated 100,000 civilians and left a million homeless. Similar
> actions against German cities (Dresden, Hamburg) killed almost as many.
>
> Chomsky is a dissident, the kind of person we celebrated in the Soviet
> Union for example. He draws our attention to uncomfortable truths,
> facts that we'd rather ignore. He encourages questioning of the
> official line, making him a traitor in some people's eyes. We are
> fortunate that he exists.
I seriously doubt that.
--
As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
For those of our race - the historic victims of so many
causes - it would be disastrous to make the same
mistake twice, and entrust our children's fate to the
hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
For those of our race - the historic victims of so many
causes - it would be disastrous to make the same
mistake twice, and entrust our children's fate to the
hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
|
Jez wrote:
>
> "Redbaiter" <do...@email.me> wrote in message
> news:3fee8444@news.orcon.net.
> > Morrissey Breen says
> > >
> > > BREEN COMMENTS: Is that not what thinkers are expected to do?
> > > Clearly, Windschuttle is disturbed by dissent, and thinks ALL writers
> > > and academics should just parrot the government (i.e. "mainstream")
> > > line; is he not satisfied that nearly the whole of the mainstream
> > > media, from rabid chickenhawks like Bill O'Reilly to the tame,
> > > unquestioning "embedded" reporters in Iraq, does exactly that?
> > >
> > > 4: 'Meanwhile, the liberal news media around the world...'
> > >
> > > BREEN COMMENTS: See the way that Windschuttle disparagingly refers to
> > > the "liberal" media, as if free thought is a bad thing. He seems
> > > proud to be a bigot.
> > >
> > What pitiful leftist propaganda. I'm so sick of your massive
> > onslaught of lies Mowwisey, that I'll even challenge this one.
> >
> > Here's some crap I posted the other day which shows clearly that
> > your lies about the media are only designed to give your leftist
> > buddies therein a bit of a break from the pressure of the
> > growing dissatisfaction with their leftist bigotry.
> >
> > As a commie propagandist Mowwisey, you get full marks for
> > effort, but zero for effect. Your lies are far too transparent.
> >
> > --------------------------
> >
> > BBC political editor Andrew Marr has admitted the corporation
> > suffers from a liberal bias. Guardian 09/10/03 John Plunkett
> >
>
> Sorry dude Andrew Marr is no more than a media whore,
> he does what he's told, as does the BBC.
> The BBC was 100% behind the illegal invasion of Iraq.
>
> I followed the BBC at the time, and was appalled by it's pro-war bias.
>
Another jerkass fool who only sees the obverse.
>
> "Redbaiter" <do...@email.me> wrote in message
> news:3fee8444@news.orcon.net.
> > Morrissey Breen says
> > >
> > > BREEN COMMENTS: Is that not what thinkers are expected to do?
> > > Clearly, Windschuttle is disturbed by dissent, and thinks ALL writers
> > > and academics should just parrot the government (i.e. "mainstream")
> > > line; is he not satisfied that nearly the whole of the mainstream
> > > media, from rabid chickenhawks like Bill O'Reilly to the tame,
> > > unquestioning "embedded" reporters in Iraq, does exactly that?
> > >
> > > 4: 'Meanwhile, the liberal news media around the world...'
> > >
> > > BREEN COMMENTS: See the way that Windschuttle disparagingly refers to
> > > the "liberal" media, as if free thought is a bad thing. He seems
> > > proud to be a bigot.
> > >
> > What pitiful leftist propaganda. I'm so sick of your massive
> > onslaught of lies Mowwisey, that I'll even challenge this one.
> >
> > Here's some crap I posted the other day which shows clearly that
> > your lies about the media are only designed to give your leftist
> > buddies therein a bit of a break from the pressure of the
> > growing dissatisfaction with their leftist bigotry.
> >
> > As a commie propagandist Mowwisey, you get full marks for
> > effort, but zero for effect. Your lies are far too transparent.
> >
> > --------------------------
> >
> > BBC political editor Andrew Marr has admitted the corporation
> > suffers from a liberal bias. Guardian 09/10/03 John Plunkett
> >
>
> Sorry dude Andrew Marr is no more than a media whore,
> he does what he's told, as does the BBC.
> The BBC was 100% behind the illegal invasion of Iraq.
>
> I followed the BBC at the time, and was appalled by it's pro-war bias.
>
Another jerkass fool who only sees the obverse.
>
--
As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
For those of our race - the historic victims of so many
causes - it would be disastrous to make the same
mistake twice, and entrust our children's fate to the
hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
For those of our race - the historic victims of so many
causes - it would be disastrous to make the same
mistake twice, and entrust our children's fate to the
hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
|
Jez wrote:
>
> "FRANKIE LEE" <s964...@singnet.com.sg> wrote in message
> news:bslrsi$ts6$1@mawar.
> >
>
> >
> > President Bush rightly put it,"They hate us for our Freedom".
>
> No, they hate you for your continuing support of
> terrorist oranisations throughout the world .
>
> Bin-Laden was A C.I.A. creation, or have you conveniently forgotten that ?
>
>
> "FRANKIE LEE" <s964...@singnet.com.sg> wrote in message
> news:bslrsi$ts6$1@mawar.
> >
>
> >
> > President Bush rightly put it,"They hate us for our Freedom".
>
> No, they hate you for your continuing support of
> terrorist oranisations throughout the world .
>
> Bin-Laden was A C.I.A. creation, or have you conveniently forgotten that ?
>
Jez - better keep that foil beanie on tight. gotta
keep that psionic radiation away before it mutates you.
keep that psionic radiation away before it mutates you.
--
As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
For those of our race - the historic victims of so many
causes - it would be disastrous to make the same
mistake twice, and entrust our children's fate to the
hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
For those of our race - the historic victims of so many
causes - it would be disastrous to make the same
mistake twice, and entrust our children's fate to the
hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
|
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:10:25 -0500, red_le wrote:
>> Bin-Laden was A C.I.A. creation, or have you conveniently forgotten that ?
>
> Jez - better keep that foil beanie on tight. gotta
> keep that psionic radiation away before it mutates you.
>
> Jez - better keep that foil beanie on tight. gotta
> keep that psionic radiation away before it mutates you.
It's a matter of public record that the CIA armed and trained both Osama
Bin Laden _and_ the Teleban.
Bin Laden _and_ the Teleban.
|
- show quoted text -
Yes. Found this article in United Press International
from a google search.
from a google search.
Exclusive: Saddam key in early CIA plot
By Richard Sale
UPI Intelligence Correspondent
Published 4/10/2003 7:30 PM
UPI Intelligence Correspondent
Published 4/10/2003 7:30 PM
U.S. forces in Baghdad might now be searching high and low for Iraqi
dictator Saddam Hussein, but in the past Saddam was seen by U.S.
intelligence services as a bulwark of anti-communism and they used him
as their instrument for more than 40 years, according to former U.S.
intelligence diplomats and intelligence officials.
United Press International has interviewed almost a dozen former U.S.
diplomats, British scholars and former U.S. intelligence officials to
piece together the following account. The CIA declined to comment on the
report.
While many have thought that Saddam first became involved with U.S.
intelligence agencies at the start of the September 1980 Iran-Iraq war,
his first contacts with U.S. officials date back to 1959, when he was
part of a CIA-authorized six-man squad tasked with assassinating then
Iraqi Prime Minister Gen. Abd al-Karim Qasim.
In July 1958, Qasim had overthrown the Iraqi monarchy in what one
former U.S. diplomat, who asked not to be identified, described as "a
horrible orgy of bloodshed."
According to current and former U.S. officials, who spoke on condition
of anonymity, Iraq was then regarded as a key buffer and strategic asset
in the Cold War with the Soviet Union. For example, in the mid-1950s,
Iraq was quick to join the anti-Soviet Baghdad Pact which was to defend
the region and whose members included Turkey, Britain, Iran and Pakistan.
Little attention was paid to Qasim's bloody and conspiratorial regime
until his sudden decision to withdraw from the pact in 1959, an act that
"freaked everybody out" according to a former senior U.S. State
Department official.
Washington watched in marked dismay as Qasim began to buy arms from
the Soviet Union and put his own domestic communists into ministry
positions of "real power," according to this official. The domestic
instability of the country prompted CIA Director Allan Dulles to say
publicly that Iraq was "the most dangerous spot in the world."
In the mid-1980s, Miles Copeland, a veteran CIA operative, told UPI
the CIA had enjoyed "close ties" with Qasim's ruling Baath Party, just
as it had close connections with the intelligence service of Egyptian
leader Gamel Abd Nassar. In a recent public statement, Roger Morris, a
former National Security Council staffer in the 1970s, confirmed this
claim, saying that the CIA had chosen the authoritarian and
anti-communist Baath Party "as its instrument."
According to another former senior State Department official, Saddam,
while only in his early 20s, became a part of a U.S. plot to get rid of
Qasim. According to this source, Saddam was installed in an apartment in
Baghdad on al-Rashid Street directly opposite Qasim's office in Iraq's
Ministry of Defense, to observe Qasim's movements.
Adel Darwish, Middle East expert and author of "Unholy Babylon," said
the move was done "with full knowledge of the CIA," and that Saddam's
CIA handler was an Iraqi dentist working for CIA and Egyptian
intelligence. U.S. officials separately confirmed Darwish's account.
Darwish said that Saddam's paymaster was Capt. Abdel Maquid Farid, the
assistant military attaché at the Egyptian Embassy who paid for the
apartment from his own personal account. Three former senior U.S.
officials have confirmed that this is accurate.
The assassination was set for Oct. 7, 1959, but it was completely
botched. Accounts differ. One former CIA official said that the
22-year-old Saddam lost his nerve and began firing too soon, killing
Qasim's driver and only wounding Qasim in the shoulder and arm. Darwish
told UPI that one of the assassins had bullets that did not fit his gun
and that another had a hand grenade that got stuck in the lining of his
coat.
"It bordered on farce," a former senior U.S. intelligence official
said. But Qasim, hiding on the floor of his car, escaped death, and
Saddam, whose calf had been grazed by a fellow would-be assassin,
escaped to Tikrit, thanks to CIA and Egyptian intelligence agents,
several U.S. government officials said.
Saddam then crossed into Syria and was transferred by Egyptian
intelligence agents to Beirut, according to Darwish and former senior
CIA officials. While Saddam was in Beirut, the CIA paid for Saddam's
apartment and put him through a brief training course, former CIA
officials said. The agency then helped him get to Cairo, they said.
One former U.S. government official, who knew Saddam at the time, said
that even then Saddam "was known as having no class. He was a thug -- a
cutthroat."
In Cairo, Saddam was installed in an apartment in the upper class
neighborhood of Dukki and spent his time playing dominos in the Indiana
Café, watched over by CIA and Egyptian intelligence operatives,
according to Darwish and former U.S. intelligence officials.
One former senior U.S. government official said: "In Cairo, I often
went to Groppie Café at Emad Eldine Pasha Street, which was very posh,
very upper class. Saddam would not have fit in there. The Indiana was
your basic dive."
But during this time Saddam was making frequent visits to the American
Embassy where CIA specialists such as Miles Copeland and CIA station
chief Jim Eichelberger were in residence and knew Saddam, former U.S.
intelligence officials said.
Saddam's U.S. handlers even pushed Saddam to get his Egyptian handlers
to raise his monthly allowance, a gesture not appreciated by Egyptian
officials since they knew of Saddam's American connection, according to
Darwish. His assertion was confirmed by former U.S. diplomat in Egypt at
the time.
In February 1963 Qasim was killed in a Baath Party coup. Morris
claimed recently that the CIA was behind the coup, which was sanctioned
by President John F. Kennedy, but a former very senior CIA official
strongly denied this.
"We were absolutely stunned. We had guys running around asking what
the hell had happened," this official said.
But the agency quickly moved into action. Noting that the Baath Party
was hunting down Iraq's communist, the CIA provided the submachine
gun-toting Iraqi National Guardsmen with lists of suspected communists
who were then jailed, interrogated, and summarily gunned down, according
to former U.S. intelligence officials with intimate knowledge of the
executions.
Many suspected communists were killed outright, these sources said.
Darwish told UPI that the mass killings, presided over by Saddam, took
place at Qasr al-Nehayat, literally, the Palace of the End.
A former senior U.S. State Department official told UPI: "We were
frankly glad to be rid of them. You ask that they get a fair trial? You
have to get kidding. This was serious business."
A former senior CIA official said: "It was a bit like the mysterious
killings of Iran's communists just after Ayatollah Khomeini came to
power in 1979. All 4,000 of his communists suddenly got killed."
British scholar Con Coughlin, author of "Saddam: King of Terror,"
quotes Jim Critchfield, then a senior Middle East agency official, as
saying the killing of Qasim and the communists was regarded "as a great
victory." A former long-time covert U.S. intelligence operative and
friend of Critchfield said: "Jim was an old Middle East hand. He wasn't
sorry to see the communists go at all. Hey, we were playing for keeps."
Saddam, in the meantime, became head of al-Jihaz a-Khas, the secret
intelligence apparatus of the Baath Party.
The CIA/Defense Intelligence Agency relation with Saddam intensified
after the start of the Iran-Iraq war in September of 1980. During the
war, the CIA regularly sent a team to Saddam to deliver battlefield
intelligence obtained from Saudi AWACS surveillance aircraft to aid the
effectiveness of Iraq's armed forces, according to a former DIA
official, part of a U.S. interagency intelligence group.
This former official said that he personally had signed off on a
document that shared U.S. satellite intelligence with both Iraq and Iran
in an attempt to produce a military stalemate. "When I signed it, I
thought I was losing my mind," the former official told UPI.
A former CIA official said that Saddam had assigned a top team of
three senior officers from the Estikhbarat, Iraq's military
intelligence, to meet with the Americans.
According to Darwish, the CIA and DIA provided military assistance to
Saddam's ferocious February 1988 assault on Iranian positions in the
al-Fao peninsula by blinding Iranian radars for three days.
The Saddam-U.S. intelligence alliance of convenience came to an end at
2 a.m. Aug. 2, 1990, when 100,000 Iraqi troops, backed by 300 tanks,
invaded its neighbor, Kuwait. America's one-time ally had become its
bitterest enemy.
Copyright © 2001-2003 United Press International
View printer-friendly version
View printer-friendly version
Copyright © 2001-2003 United Press International. All rights reserved.
|
--
Morrissey Breen:
> 1.) Get down to your local library NOW.
> 2.) Take out a membership card (yep - somethin' tells moi that you
> don't go near libraries very often. Am I right... or am I right?)
> 3.) Get out, say, FIVE books.
> 4.) Make sure at least one of them is by Noam Chomsky.
Since 1977, Chomsky has been out in la la land, singing to the
cuckoos.
Morrissey Breen:
> 1.) Get down to your local library NOW.
> 2.) Take out a membership card (yep - somethin' tells moi that you
> don't go near libraries very often. Am I right... or am I right?)
> 3.) Get out, say, FIVE books.
> 4.) Make sure at least one of them is by Noam Chomsky.
If you guys ever read two books about recent history, one not by Noam
Chomsky, you would have discovered that the one not by Noam Chomsky
reports a world unrecognizably different from the one by Noam Chomsky.
Chomsky, you would have discovered that the one not by Noam Chomsky
reports a world unrecognizably different from the one by Noam Chomsky.
To take the most recent sample, I was just arguing with someone about
the events of the Chilean coup. The guy I was arguing with gave the
Chomsky version. I pulled a book of Chilean history at random from
the shelves, it contradicted the Chomsky version of events up and down
on the points we were arguing.
http://groups.google.com/
the events of the Chilean coup. The guy I was arguing with gave the
Chomsky version. I pulled a book of Chilean history at random from
the shelves, it contradicted the Chomsky version of events up and down
on the points we were arguing.
http://groups.google.com/
Since 1977, Chomsky has been out in la la land, singing to the
cuckoos.
--digsig
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/
jBaRTLnOijAdBDWaqEc+
4WHfDoX4EGamASF94Hw+
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/
jBaRTLnOijAdBDWaqEc+
4WHfDoX4EGamASF94Hw+
|
--
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 08:25:28 +1300, Gib Bogle
<bo...@too.much.spam.ihug.co.
> Does "rationalize" mean "explain"? As I recall, Chomsky attempted to
> explain Sept 11.
4x5UaimShOtsYiztCczgql9Ye4/
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 08:25:28 +1300, Gib Bogle
<bo...@too.much.spam.ihug.co.
> Does "rationalize" mean "explain"? As I recall, Chomsky attempted to
> explain Sept 11.
He "explained" why it was actually the fault of Americans.
--digsig
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/
DALwSu/w1qiua0P/James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/
4x5UaimShOtsYiztCczgql9Ye4/
|
Ewen McCready wrote:
September 13, 2001
Osama Bin Laden trained by CIA, funded by US Tax Dollars
Following is an article that was published in the BBC.
In May this year a US jury convicted four men believed to be linked with Mr
Bin Laden of plotting the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania.
Mr Bin Laden, an immensely wealthy and private man, has been granted a safe
haven by Afghanistan's ruling Taleban movement.
During his time in hiding, he has called for a holy war against the US, and
for the killing of Americans and Jews. He is reported to be able to rally
around him up to 3,000 fighters.
He is also suspected of helping to set up Islamic training centres to
prepare soldiers to fight in Chechnya and other parts of the former Soviet
Union.
Sponsored by US and Pakistan
His power is founded on a personal fortune earned by his family's
construction business in Saudi Arabia.
Born in Saudi Arabia to a Yemeni family, Mr Bin Laden left Saudi Arabia in
1979 to fight against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
The Afghan jihad was backed with American dollars and had the blessing of
the governments of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
He received security training from the CIA itself, according to Middle
Eastern analyst Hazhir Teimourian.
While in Afghanistan, he founded the Maktab al-Khidimat (MAK), which
recruited fighters from around the world and imported equipment to aid the
Afghan resistance against the Soviet army.
Egyptians, Lebanese, Turks and others - numbering thousands in Mr Bin
Laden's estimate - joined their Afghan Muslim brothers in the struggle
against an ideology that spurned religion.
Turned against the US
After the Soviet withdrawal, the "Arab Afghans", as Mr Bin Laden's faction
came to be called, turned their fire against the US and its allies in the
Middle East.
Mr Bin Laden returned to Saudi Arabia to work in the family construction
business, but was expelled in 1991 because of his anti-government
activities there.
He spent the next five years in Sudan until US pressure prompted the
Sudanese Government to expel him, whereupon Mr Bin Laden returned to
Afghanistan.
Terrorism experts say Mr Bin Laden has been using his millions to fund
attacks against the US.
The US State Department calls him "one of the most significant sponsors of
Islamic extremist activities in the world today".
According to the US, Mr Bin Laden was involved in at least three major
attacks - the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the 1996 killing of 19 US
soldiers in Saudi Arabia, and the 1998 bombings in Kenya and Tanzania.
Islamic front
BBC correspondent James Robbins says Mr Bin Laden had "all but admitted
involvement" in the Saudi Arabia killings.
Some experts say he is part of an international Islamic front, bringing
together Saudi, Egyptian and other groups.
Their rallying cry is the liberation of Islam's three holiest places -
Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem.
The few outsiders who have met Osama Bin Laden describe him as modest,
almost shy. He rarely gives interviews.
He is believed to be in his 40s, and to have at least three wives.
--
It is accurate to call a member of a communist party a communist. For
short, he is often called a Red. Indiscriminate pinning of the label Red on
people and proposals which one opposes is a common political device. It is
a favorite trick of native as well as foreign fascists.
1945 US War Dept Memorandum:
Three Ways To Spot A Fascist.
> Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Bin-Laden was A C.I.A. creation, or have you conveniently forgotten that
>>>>?
>>>
>>>Jez - better keep that foil beanie on tight. gotta
>>>keep that psionic radiation away before it mutates you.
>>
>>
>> It's a matter of public record that the CIA armed and trained both Osama
>> Bin Laden _and_ the Teleban.
>>
>
> Yes. Found this article in United Press International
> from a google search.
>
> Exclusive: Saddam key in early CIA plot
>
> By Richard Sale
> UPI Intelligence Correspondent
> Published 4/10/2003 7:30 PM
>
> http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?
>
Thanks for this. :-)>>
>>>>Bin-Laden was A C.I.A. creation, or have you conveniently forgotten that
>>>>?
>>>
>>>Jez - better keep that foil beanie on tight. gotta
>>>keep that psionic radiation away before it mutates you.
>>
>>
>> It's a matter of public record that the CIA armed and trained both Osama
>> Bin Laden _and_ the Teleban.
>>
>
> Yes. Found this article in United Press International
> from a google search.
>
> Exclusive: Saddam key in early CIA plot
>
> By Richard Sale
> UPI Intelligence Correspondent
> Published 4/10/2003 7:30 PM
>
> http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?
>
Here is another article on the same subject. from the BBC.
J.
September 13, 2001
Osama Bin Laden trained by CIA, funded by US Tax Dollars
Following is an article that was published in the BBC.
Osama Bin Laden is both one of the CIA's most wanted men, and a hero for
many young people in the Arab world. He and his associates are being sought
by the US on charges of international terrorism, including in connection
with the 1998 bombing of American embassies in Africa and this year's
attack on the USS Cole in Yemen.
many young people in the Arab world. He and his associates are being sought
by the US on charges of international terrorism, including in connection
with the 1998 bombing of American embassies in Africa and this year's
attack on the USS Cole in Yemen.
In May this year a US jury convicted four men believed to be linked with Mr
Bin Laden of plotting the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania.
Mr Bin Laden, an immensely wealthy and private man, has been granted a safe
haven by Afghanistan's ruling Taleban movement.
During his time in hiding, he has called for a holy war against the US, and
for the killing of Americans and Jews. He is reported to be able to rally
around him up to 3,000 fighters.
He is also suspected of helping to set up Islamic training centres to
prepare soldiers to fight in Chechnya and other parts of the former Soviet
Union.
Sponsored by US and Pakistan
His power is founded on a personal fortune earned by his family's
construction business in Saudi Arabia.
Born in Saudi Arabia to a Yemeni family, Mr Bin Laden left Saudi Arabia in
1979 to fight against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
The Afghan jihad was backed with American dollars and had the blessing of
the governments of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
He received security training from the CIA itself, according to Middle
Eastern analyst Hazhir Teimourian.
While in Afghanistan, he founded the Maktab al-Khidimat (MAK), which
recruited fighters from around the world and imported equipment to aid the
Afghan resistance against the Soviet army.
Egyptians, Lebanese, Turks and others - numbering thousands in Mr Bin
Laden's estimate - joined their Afghan Muslim brothers in the struggle
against an ideology that spurned religion.
Turned against the US
After the Soviet withdrawal, the "Arab Afghans", as Mr Bin Laden's faction
came to be called, turned their fire against the US and its allies in the
Middle East.
Mr Bin Laden returned to Saudi Arabia to work in the family construction
business, but was expelled in 1991 because of his anti-government
activities there.
He spent the next five years in Sudan until US pressure prompted the
Sudanese Government to expel him, whereupon Mr Bin Laden returned to
Afghanistan.
Terrorism experts say Mr Bin Laden has been using his millions to fund
attacks against the US.
The US State Department calls him "one of the most significant sponsors of
Islamic extremist activities in the world today".
According to the US, Mr Bin Laden was involved in at least three major
attacks - the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the 1996 killing of 19 US
soldiers in Saudi Arabia, and the 1998 bombings in Kenya and Tanzania.
Islamic front
BBC correspondent James Robbins says Mr Bin Laden had "all but admitted
involvement" in the Saudi Arabia killings.
Some experts say he is part of an international Islamic front, bringing
together Saudi, Egyptian and other groups.
Their rallying cry is the liberation of Islam's three holiest places -
Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem.
The few outsiders who have met Osama Bin Laden describe him as modest,
almost shy. He rarely gives interviews.
He is believed to be in his 40s, and to have at least three wives.
--
It is accurate to call a member of a communist party a communist. For
short, he is often called a Red. Indiscriminate pinning of the label Red on
people and proposals which one opposes is a common political device. It is
a favorite trick of native as well as foreign fascists.
1945 US War Dept Memorandum:
Three Ways To Spot A Fascist.
|
> Chomsky is a dissident, the kind of person we celebrated in
> the Soviet Union for example.
> the Soviet Union for example.
We celebrate the dissidents of the Soviet Union because they
spoke truth to power at great personal risk, and suffered
deeply in consequence. Chomsky speaks comforting lies to the
comfortably well off, and is richly rewarded for telling them
what they want to hear,
spoke truth to power at great personal risk, and suffered
deeply in consequence. Chomsky speaks comforting lies to the
comfortably well off, and is richly rewarded for telling them
what they want to hear,
> He draws our attention to uncomfortable truths,
Chomsky cheers genocidal tyrants, spits in the faces of the
victims of terror, fawns on power, and promotes
totalitarianism.
victims of terror, fawns on power, and promotes
totalitarianism.
Chomsky writes badly because in his heart he fears that if he
wrote clearly and plainly, his enemies would see his soul.
wrote clearly and plainly, his enemies would see his soul.
When someone is unable to look you in the eye, you
instinctively know he is a liar. Written words show no body
language, but the fear of being found out shows in writing
also, in Chomsky's evasive double talk, in his wordy ambiguity,
his contorted and elaborate efforts to appear to be saying one
thing while seeking to persuade his readers of another thing,
words emitted as a fog to conceal meaning, rather than pictures
to display meaning.
instinctively know he is a liar. Written words show no body
language, but the fear of being found out shows in writing
also, in Chomsky's evasive double talk, in his wordy ambiguity,
his contorted and elaborate efforts to appear to be saying one
thing while seeking to persuade his readers of another thing,
words emitted as a fog to conceal meaning, rather than pictures
to display meaning.
--digsig
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/
4FNoO+p/cBDk/
|
- show quoted text -
Really?
"If a CIA officer tried to give money to bin Laden, he probably would
not have lived through the experience. The arch-terrorist was known for
his violent anti-Americanism. Dana Rohrabacher, now a Republican
congressman from California, told me about a trip he took with the
mujahideen in 1987. On that trek, his guide told him not to speak
English for the next few hours because they were passing by bin Laden’s
camp. “If he hears an American, he will kill you.”
not have lived through the experience. The arch-terrorist was known for
his violent anti-Americanism. Dana Rohrabacher, now a Republican
congressman from California, told me about a trip he took with the
mujahideen in 1987. On that trek, his guide told him not to speak
English for the next few hours because they were passing by bin Laden’s
camp. “If he hears an American, he will kill you.”
Why is this myth of CIA support for bin Laden so persistent? Some find
the myth persuasive because they do not know that America and Saudi
Arabia funded two different sets of anti-Soviet fighters. Others on the
anti-American left and right, in both Europe and America, find it oddly
comforting. It gives solace to those who want to think the worst of
us. The CIA-funding myth allows them to return to a familiar pattern, to
blame America first. Whatever the cause, this myth weakens America’s
case for the war on terror by setting up a moral equivalency between
America and Al Qaeda. This animates protests at home and makes it harder
to win allies abroad."
the myth persuasive because they do not know that America and Saudi
Arabia funded two different sets of anti-Soviet fighters. Others on the
anti-American left and right, in both Europe and America, find it oddly
comforting. It gives solace to those who want to think the worst of
us. The CIA-funding myth allows them to return to a familiar pattern, to
blame America first. Whatever the cause, this myth weakens America’s
case for the war on terror by setting up a moral equivalency between
America and Al Qaeda. This animates protests at home and makes it harder
to win allies abroad."
And yes, I know you Lefties don't believe anything from Fox News but I
don't believe anything from zmag either.
don't believe anything from zmag either.
|
In article <pan.2003.12.29.03.11.19.
alanb+...@digistar.com says...
alanb+...@digistar.com says...
> It's a matter of public record that the CIA armed and trained both Osama
> Bin Laden _and_ the Teleban.
> Bin Laden _and_ the Teleban.
Wrong.
During the Afghan War, the CIA aid went to the Afghanis. The Saudis
also sent aid, reportedly matching the CIA contributions dollar for
dollar, and some of the recipients of their largess were Arab
Mujahadeen, including one Osama Bin Laden. No CIA money went to
arming and training Osama as he had more than enough cash from home
to spend.
also sent aid, reportedly matching the CIA contributions dollar for
dollar, and some of the recipients of their largess were Arab
Mujahadeen, including one Osama Bin Laden. No CIA money went to
arming and training Osama as he had more than enough cash from home
to spend.
The CIA has never armed and trained the Taliban. The Taliban
wasn't formed until _after_ the Afghan war when the Mujahadeen
government (who were armed and trained by the CIA) fell to
fighting among themselves.
wasn't formed until _after_ the Afghan war when the Mujahadeen
government (who were armed and trained by the CIA) fell to
fighting among themselves.
--Peter Metcalfe
|
Peter Metcalfe wrote:
The Taliban from Texas
>
> --Peter Metcalfe
> In article <pan.2003.12.29.03.11.19.
> alanb+...@digistar.com says...
>
>> It's a matter of public record that the CIA armed and trained both Osama
>> Bin Laden _and_ the Teleban.
>
> Wrong.
> alanb+...@digistar.com says...
>
>> It's a matter of public record that the CIA armed and trained both Osama
>> Bin Laden _and_ the Teleban.
>
> Wrong.
Time for a song while I think of a suitable rejoinder.
The Taliban from Texas
by BOB RIEDEL
(to the tune of "The Yellow Rose of Texas" -- anon., 1836, public
domain)
domain)
There are Taliban from Texas who want to run the world
Their crossbone-spangled banner's triumphantly unfurled
They trample on the Bill of Rights and mock democracy
The Taliban from Texas have it in for you & me
Their crossbone-spangled banner's triumphantly unfurled
They trample on the Bill of Rights and mock democracy
The Taliban from Texas have it in for you & me
They'll say you are a traitor if you don't toe the line
Their friends at Exxon Mobil all think that's very fine
"Support the troops" means "shut your mouth & never raise a fuss"
Those Taliban from Texas will be the end of US.
Their friends at Exxon Mobil all think that's very fine
"Support the troops" means "shut your mouth & never raise a fuss"
Those Taliban from Texas will be the end of US.
They're pocketing a tax cut as big as all outdoors
To pay for Fox cheerleaders and other sundry whores
They worship "G.I. Jesus" and not the Prince of Peace
The Taliban of Texas want to be your thought police.
To pay for Fox cheerleaders and other sundry whores
They worship "G.I. Jesus" and not the Prince of Peace
The Taliban of Texas want to be your thought police.
>
> --Peter Metcalfe
--
"For years those opposed to weapons of massdestruction have pointed out that
such weapons do not deter conflict or war and do not bring security."
Rae Street; Nuclear Weapons.
"For years those opposed to weapons of massdestruction have pointed out that
such weapons do not deter conflict or war and do not bring security."
Rae Street; Nuclear Weapons.
|
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:05:51 GMT, ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>>>This Adolf Chomsky has a brother who predicted 3-4million civilian
>>>deaths due to the American liberation of that country. What a pair of
>>>fuckwits.
>>
>>Oops... "that country" = Afghanistan.
>
>The count isn't complete yet, Mr. Pears. Give them some time. they've
>got two middle eastern countries to get under their thumbs.
>>>deaths due to the American liberation of that country. What a pair of
>>>fuckwits.
>>
>>Oops... "that country" = Afghanistan.
>
>The count isn't complete yet, Mr. Pears. Give them some time. they've
>got two middle eastern countries to get under their thumbs.
What do those deaths have to do with predicted (rather badly, I might
add) deaths in Afghanistan? You do realise that these are different
countries with different people, even if they do all look the same to
you?
add) deaths in Afghanistan? You do realise that these are different
countries with different people, even if they do all look the same to
you?
BTW, did you realise that the life expectancy for women living in
Taliban era Afghanistan was something like 40 or 42 years? To me,
that sounds like a genocide. Nice that someone has done something to
help, even if it was a secondary effect of the need to shit all over
al Qaeda.
Taliban era Afghanistan was something like 40 or 42 years? To me,
that sounds like a genocide. Nice that someone has done something to
help, even if it was a secondary effect of the need to shit all over
al Qaeda.
David
|
Chomsky is a dissident, the kind of person we celebrated in the Soviet
Union for example. He draws our attention to uncomfortable truths,
facts that we'd rather ignore. He encourages questioning of the
official line, making him a traitor in some people's eyes. We are
fortunate that he exists.
facts that we'd rather ignore. He encourages questioning of the
official line, making him a traitor in some people's eyes. We are
fortunate that he exists.
Gib
Replies: There is a world of differance with regards to questioning the
official line.
Chomsky blames America and give reasons linking to sept 11 terrorists
acts.He is anti-USA.
His definition of 4 year term of USA Presidency as dictatorship,and it has
no remote resemblence to the definition of what a Dictatorship is.
official line.
Chomsky blames America and give reasons linking to sept 11 terrorists
acts.He is anti-USA.
His definition of 4 year term of USA Presidency as dictatorship,and it has
no remote resemblence to the definition of what a Dictatorship is.
Morrissey Breen declared that anti-USA government is not
Anti-Americans.Anti-USA government is not a Traitor,if your words has any
meaning.
If we were to accept your views and Morrissey Breen,and also Chomsky,then
revolt and rebellion,as declared by Osama are legitimised.USA government
must be brought down,is it not?
Anti-Americans.Anti-USA government is not a Traitor,if your words has any
meaning.
If we were to accept your views and Morrissey Breen,and also Chomsky,then
revolt and rebellion,as declared by Osama are legitimised.USA government
must be brought down,is it not?
Since the Government of USA is so corrupt,to the extent as being equal to
Hitler's Fascisms,describe by you guys,then you guys are correct to be
anti-fascists.Anarchy and unrest for your nations would be the order of the
day,is it not?
Hitler's Fascisms,describe by you guys,then you guys are correct to be
anti-fascists.Anarchy and unrest for your nations would be the order of the
day,is it not?
By being anti-establishment,the order of governments,and by that acts are
not Traitor's motivation,then what is?
not Traitor's motivation,then what is?
Contrary,it is your extreme views and Chomsky,which is trying to undermine
the rules of Government,and its constitution.
That interests to harm Americans,as set out by Osama,bore no differance to
the mindset of Terrorists.
the rules of Government,and its constitution.
That interests to harm Americans,as set out by Osama,bore no differance to
the mindset of Terrorists.
Windschuttle's truths hurt badly,and he/she is the one who questions the
motives and hidden agendas of Chomsky,and laying out in the open for all to
see.He/she makes the Truths uncomfortable for you guys,surely you guys are
convicted as Traitors,as we see it.
motives and hidden agendas of Chomsky,and laying out in the open for all to
see.He/she makes the Truths uncomfortable for you guys,surely you guys are
convicted as Traitors,as we see it.
Frankie.
- show quoted text -
> Chomsky is a dissident, the kind of person we celebrated in the Soviet
> Union for example. He draws our attention to uncomfortable truths,
> facts that we'd rather ignore. He encourages questioning of the
> official line, making him a traitor in some people's eyes. We are
> fortunate that he exists.
>
> Gib> facts that we'd rather ignore. He encourages questioning of the
> official line, making him a traitor in some people's eyes. We are
> fortunate that he exists.
>
>
|
David Pears wrote:
> BTW, did you realise that the life expectancy for women living in
> Taliban era Afghanistan was something like 40 or 42 years? To me,
> that sounds like a genocide.
> BTW, did you realise that the life expectancy for women living in
> Taliban era Afghanistan was something like 40 or 42 years? To me,
> that sounds like a genocide.
I wouldnt jump up and down too much on this front if I were you. There is
a history of genocidal massacre by your Northern Alliance pals which you
fail to mention. Neither side is up to much if the truth be known but like
your old pal Saddam both the Taliban and the Northern Alliance were matey
with the US when these.. er..um..little 'incidents' occurred.
a history of genocidal massacre by your Northern Alliance pals which you
fail to mention. Neither side is up to much if the truth be known but like
your old pal Saddam both the Taliban and the Northern Alliance were matey
with the US when these.. er..um..little 'incidents' occurred.
|
FRANKIE LEE wrote:
>> >>1: 'Noam Chomsky was the most conspicuous American intellectual to
>> >>rationalize the Al Qaeda terrorist attacks on New York and
>> >>Washington.'
>> >
>> Does "rationalize" mean "explain"? As I recall, Chomsky attempted to
>> explain Sept 11. At the time, the feeling was that even to attempt to
>> explain such a horrendous event was treasonous. More rational people
>> saw that an attempt at explanation was not just reasonable, it was
>> essential.
>>
>> US exceptionalism allows them to believe that such a horrific event was
>> unprecedented in human history. I learned a few days ago that a single
>> night of American Superfortress incendiary bombing of Tokyo killed an
>> estimated 100,000 civilians and left a million homeless. Similar
>> actions against German cities (Dresden, Hamburg) killed almost as many.
>>
>> Chomsky is a dissident, the kind of person we celebrated in the Soviet
>> Union for example. He draws our attention to uncomfortable truths,
>> facts that we'd rather ignore. He encourages questioning of the
>> official line, making him a traitor in some people's eyes. We are
>> fortunate that he exists.
>>
>> Gib
This post is very confusing. Please reply in the proper format and
ascribe properly.
>> >>1: 'Noam Chomsky was the most conspicuous American intellectual to
>> >>rationalize the Al Qaeda terrorist attacks on New York and
>> >>Washington.'
>> >
>>
>> Does "rationalize" mean "explain"? As I recall, Chomsky attempted to
>> explain Sept 11. At the time, the feeling was that even to attempt to
>> explain such a horrendous event was treasonous. More rational people
>> saw that an attempt at explanation was not just reasonable, it was
>> essential.
>>
>> US exceptionalism allows them to believe that such a horrific event was
>> unprecedented in human history. I learned a few days ago that a single
>> night of American Superfortress incendiary bombing of Tokyo killed an
>> estimated 100,000 civilians and left a million homeless. Similar
>> actions against German cities (Dresden, Hamburg) killed almost as many.
>>
>> Chomsky is a dissident, the kind of person we celebrated in the Soviet
>> Union for example. He draws our attention to uncomfortable truths,
>> facts that we'd rather ignore. He encourages questioning of the
>> official line, making him a traitor in some people's eyes. We are
>> fortunate that he exists.
>>
>> Gib
This post is very confusing. Please reply in the proper format and
ascribe properly.
--
|
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:30:18 +1300, janice <janice_g_@_free.net.nz>
wrote:
wrote:
- show quoted text -
Er, the US were never matey with the Taliban. Altho I suppose you've
constructed some odd theory involving lots of facists to "prove" how
it all happened in your own fantasy world.
constructed some odd theory involving lots of facists to "prove" how
it all happened in your own fantasy world.
And what is this about my "old pal Saddam"? I have been consistent in
supporting those who are prepared to do something to remove Saddam
from office. If you want one of his old pals, look no further than
those who would have sat around indefinitely while he killed millions
more Iraqis, Iranians, and Kuwaitis.
supporting those who are prepared to do something to remove Saddam
from office. If you want one of his old pals, look no further than
those who would have sat around indefinitely while he killed millions
more Iraqis, Iranians, and Kuwaitis.
You'll be glad the loya jirga has extended equal rights to all women
today. That would have made the liberation of Afghanistan worthwhile,
even if 911 had never happened.
today. That would have made the liberation of Afghanistan worthwhile,
even if 911 had never happened.
David
|
David Pears wrote:
In 1993-94, Western countries began to realize the importance of energy
resources in the soil of Central Asian countries, particularly Kazakhstan.
They became more aware of the situation in Afghanistan, which has always
been regarded as a key to control the region.
> On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:30:18 +1300, janice <janice_g_@_free.net.nz>
> wrote:
>
>>> BTW, did you realise that the life expectancy for women living in
>>> Taliban era Afghanistan was something like 40 or 42 years? To me,
>>> that sounds like a genocide.
>>
>>I wouldnt jump up and down too much on this front if I were you. There is
>>a history of genocidal massacre by your Northern Alliance pals which you
>>fail to mention. Neither side is up to much if the truth be known but
>>like
>>your old pal Saddam both the Taliban and the Northern Alliance were matey
>>with the US when these.. er..um..little 'incidents' occurred.
>
> Er, the US were never matey with the Taliban.
> wrote:
>
>>> BTW, did you realise that the life expectancy for women living in
>>> Taliban era Afghanistan was something like 40 or 42 years? To me,
>>> that sounds like a genocide.
>>
>>I wouldnt jump up and down too much on this front if I were you. There is
>>a history of genocidal massacre by your Northern Alliance pals which you
>>fail to mention. Neither side is up to much if the truth be known but
>>like
>>your old pal Saddam both the Taliban and the Northern Alliance were matey
>>with the US when these.. er..um..little 'incidents' occurred.
>
> Er, the US were never matey with the Taliban.
Apart, from distributing large quantities of largesse in the form of
dollars, yes they were.
"CIA worked in tandem with Pak to create Taliban"
dollars, yes they were.
"CIA worked in tandem with Pak to create Taliban"
http://www.timesofindia.com/
"CIA worked in tandem with Pak to create Taliban"
LONDON [IANS]: The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) worked in tandem with
Pakistan to create the "monster"
that is today Afghanistan's ruling Taliban, a leading US expert on South
Asia said here.
"I warned them that we were creating a monster," Selig Harrison from the
Woodrow Wilson International Centre
for Scholars said at the conference here last week on "Terrorism and
Regional Security: Managing the Challenges in Asia."
Harrison said: "The CIA made a historic mistake in encouraging Islamic
groups from all over the world to come to Afghanistan." The US provided $3
billion for building up these Islamic groups, and it accepted Pakistan's
demand that they should decide how this money should be spent, Harrison
said.
Harrison, who spoke before the Taliban assault on the Buddha statues was
launched, told the gathering of security experts that he had meetings with
CIA leaders at the time when Islamic forces were being strengthened in
Afghanistan. "They told me these people were fanatical, and the more fierce
they were the more fiercely they would fight the Soviets," he said. "I
warned them that we were creating a monster."
More- See url above.
"CIA worked in tandem with Pak to create Taliban"
LONDON [IANS]: The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) worked in tandem with
Pakistan to create the "monster"
that is today Afghanistan's ruling Taliban, a leading US expert on South
Asia said here.
"I warned them that we were creating a monster," Selig Harrison from the
Woodrow Wilson International Centre
for Scholars said at the conference here last week on "Terrorism and
Regional Security: Managing the Challenges in Asia."
Harrison said: "The CIA made a historic mistake in encouraging Islamic
groups from all over the world to come to Afghanistan." The US provided $3
billion for building up these Islamic groups, and it accepted Pakistan's
demand that they should decide how this money should be spent, Harrison
said.
Harrison, who spoke before the Taliban assault on the Buddha statues was
launched, told the gathering of security experts that he had meetings with
CIA leaders at the time when Islamic forces were being strengthened in
Afghanistan. "They told me these people were fanatical, and the more fierce
they were the more fiercely they would fight the Soviets," he said. "I
warned them that we were creating a monster."
More- See url above.
In 1993-94, Western countries began to realize the importance of energy
resources in the soil of Central Asian countries, particularly Kazakhstan.
They became more aware of the situation in Afghanistan, which has always
been regarded as a key to control the region.
Seeking a strong regime in Afghanistan, the Western countries had Saudi
Arabia, a country of Sunni influence like Afghanistan, choose from among the
Pashtun, Afghanistan's main ethnic group, those who could seize power after
years of civil war. That is why the Taliban emerged, with the help of funds
provided by the U.S. and Saudi oil giants--Unocal and Delta Oil. Talks
between the United States and the Taliban started cautiously.
Arabia, a country of Sunni influence like Afghanistan, choose from among the
Pashtun, Afghanistan's main ethnic group, those who could seize power after
years of civil war. That is why the Taliban emerged, with the help of funds
provided by the U.S. and Saudi oil giants--Unocal and Delta Oil. Talks
between the United States and the Taliban started cautiously.
This article discusses a visit the Taliban made to the US in 1997 hosted by
oil giant Unocal.
oil giant Unocal.
The Telegraph
Sunday 14 December 1997
By Caroline Lees
Sunday 14 December 1997
By Caroline Lees
Oil barons court Taliban in Texas
THE Taliban, Afghanistan's Islamic fundamentalist army, is about to sign a
£2 billion contract with an American oil company to build a pipeline across
the war-torn country.
£2 billion contract with an American oil company to build a pipeline across
the war-torn country.
The Islamic warriors appear to have been persuaded to close the deal, not
through delicate negotiation but by old-fashioned Texan hospitality. Last
week Unocal, the Houston-based company bidding to build the 876-mile
pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan, invited the Taliban to visit them
in Texas. Dressed in traditional salwar khameez, Afghan waistcoats and
loose, black turbans, the high-ranking delegation was given VIP treatment
during the four-day stay.
through delicate negotiation but by old-fashioned Texan hospitality. Last
week Unocal, the Houston-based company bidding to build the 876-mile
pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan, invited the Taliban to visit them
in Texas. Dressed in traditional salwar khameez, Afghan waistcoats and
loose, black turbans, the high-ranking delegation was given VIP treatment
during the four-day stay.
The Taliban ministers and their advisers stayed in a five-star hotel and
were chauffeured in a company minibus. Their only requests were to visit
Houston's zoo, the Nasa space centre and Omaha's Super Target discount
store to buy stockings, toothpaste, combs and soap. The Taliban, which
controls two-thirds of Afghanistan and is still fighting for the last
third, was also given an insight into how the other half lives.
were chauffeured in a company minibus. Their only requests were to visit
Houston's zoo, the Nasa space centre and Omaha's Super Target discount
store to buy stockings, toothpaste, combs and soap. The Taliban, which
controls two-thirds of Afghanistan and is still fighting for the last
third, was also given an insight into how the other half lives.
The men, who are accustomed to life without heating, electricity or running
water, were amazed by the luxurious homes of Texan oil barons. Invited to
dinner at the palatial home of Martin Miller, a vice-president of Unocal,
they marvelled at his swimming pool, views of the golf course and six
bathrooms. After a meal of specially prepared halal meat, rice and
Coca-Cola, the hardline fundamentalists - who have banned women from
working and girls from going to school - asked Mr Miller about his
Christmas tree.
water, were amazed by the luxurious homes of Texan oil barons. Invited to
dinner at the palatial home of Martin Miller, a vice-president of Unocal,
they marvelled at his swimming pool, views of the golf course and six
bathrooms. After a meal of specially prepared halal meat, rice and
Coca-Cola, the hardline fundamentalists - who have banned women from
working and girls from going to school - asked Mr Miller about his
Christmas tree.
snip
It will supply two of the fastest-growing energy markets in the world:
Pakistan and India. The Unocal group has one significant attraction for the
Taliban - it has American government backing. At the end of their stay last
week, the Afghan visitors were invited to Washington to meet government
officials. The US government, which in the past has branded the Taliban's
policies against women and children "despicable", appears anxious to please
the fundamentalists to clinch the lucrative pipeline contract. The Taliban
is likely to have been impressed by the American government's interest as
it is anxious to win international recognition. So far, it has been
recognised only by the UAE, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
Pakistan and India. The Unocal group has one significant attraction for the
Taliban - it has American government backing. At the end of their stay last
week, the Afghan visitors were invited to Washington to meet government
officials. The US government, which in the past has branded the Taliban's
policies against women and children "despicable", appears anxious to please
the fundamentalists to clinch the lucrative pipeline contract. The Taliban
is likely to have been impressed by the American government's interest as
it is anxious to win international recognition. So far, it has been
recognised only by the UAE, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
Unocal has promised to start building the pipeline immediately, despite the
region's instability. There is fighting just 87 miles from the planned
entry point of the pipeline in the northwest of the country. The Taliban
has assured Unocal that its workers and the pipeline will be safe, but it
cannot guarantee that it will not be attacked by opposition forces.
region's instability. There is fighting just 87 miles from the planned
entry point of the pipeline in the northwest of the country. The Taliban
has assured Unocal that its workers and the pipeline will be safe, but it
cannot guarantee that it will not be attacked by opposition forces.
The consortium has also agreed to start paying the Taliban immediately. The
Islamic army will receive tax on every one of the million cubic feet of
fuel that passes through Afghanistan every day. Unocal has also offered
other inducements. Apart from giving fax machines, generators and T-shirts,
it has donated £500,000 to the University of Nebraska for courses in
Afghanistan to train 400 teachers, electricians, carpenters and
pipefitters. Nearly 150 students are already receiving technical training
in southern Afghanistan.
Islamic army will receive tax on every one of the million cubic feet of
fuel that passes through Afghanistan every day. Unocal has also offered
other inducements. Apart from giving fax machines, generators and T-shirts,
it has donated £500,000 to the University of Nebraska for courses in
Afghanistan to train 400 teachers, electricians, carpenters and
pipefitters. Nearly 150 students are already receiving technical training
in southern Afghanistan.
But it was the homely touches which swayed the Taliban. When the delegation
left Texas, one of their entourage stayed behind. Mullah Mohammad Ghaus,
the former foreign minister and a leading member of the Taliban ruling
council, remained in Texas for medical treatment. Years on the front line
damaged his eyesight. Unocal bought him a battery-powered magnifying glass
and are paying for him to go to an optician.
left Texas, one of their entourage stayed behind. Mullah Mohammad Ghaus,
the former foreign minister and a leading member of the Taliban ruling
council, remained in Texas for medical treatment. Years on the front line
damaged his eyesight. Unocal bought him a battery-powered magnifying glass
and are paying for him to go to an optician.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
"James A. Donald" wrote:
>
> --
> Morrissey Breen:
> > 1.) Get down to your local library NOW.
> > 2.) Take out a membership card (yep - somethin' tells moi that you
> > don't go near libraries very often. Am I right... or am I right?)
> > 3.) Get out, say, FIVE books.
> > 4.) Make sure at least one of them is by Noam Chomsky.
>
> If you guys ever read two books about recent history, one not by Noam
> Chomsky, you would have discovered that the one not by Noam Chomsky
> reports a world unrecognizably different from the one by Noam Chomsky.
>
> To take the most recent sample, I was just arguing with someone about
> the events of the Chilean coup. The guy I was arguing with gave the
> Chomsky version. I pulled a book of Chilean history at random from
> the shelves, it contradicted the Chomsky version of events up and down
> on the points we were arguing.
> http://groups.google.com/
>
> Since 1977, Chomsky has been out in la la land,
> singing to the cuckoos.
>
> --
> Morrissey Breen:
> > 1.) Get down to your local library NOW.
> > 2.) Take out a membership card (yep - somethin' tells moi that you
> > don't go near libraries very often. Am I right... or am I right?)
> > 3.) Get out, say, FIVE books.
> > 4.) Make sure at least one of them is by Noam Chomsky.
>
> If you guys ever read two books about recent history, one not by Noam
> Chomsky, you would have discovered that the one not by Noam Chomsky
> reports a world unrecognizably different from the one by Noam Chomsky.
>
> To take the most recent sample, I was just arguing with someone about
> the events of the Chilean coup. The guy I was arguing with gave the
> Chomsky version. I pulled a book of Chilean history at random from
> the shelves, it contradicted the Chomsky version of events up and down
> on the points we were arguing.
> http://groups.google.com/
>
> Since 1977, Chomsky has been out in la la land,
> singing to the cuckoos.
You are wrong there ........ try '67
>
> --digsig
> James A. Donald
>
> --digsig
> James A. Donald
--
As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
It would be disastrous to make the same mistake twice,armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
and entrust our children's fate to the hands of these
sad and complicitous pacifists.
|
janice wrote:
>
> Peter Metcalfe wrote:
>
> > In article <pan.2003.12.29.03.11.19.
> > alanb+...@digistar.com says...
> >
> >> It's a matter of public record that the CIA armed and trained both Osama
> >> Bin Laden _and_ the Teleban.
> >
> > Wrong.
>
> Time for a song while I think of a suitable rejoinder.
>
How about this?>
> Peter Metcalfe wrote:
>
> > In article <pan.2003.12.29.03.11.19.
> > alanb+...@digistar.com says...
> >
> >> It's a matter of public record that the CIA armed and trained both Osama
> >> Bin Laden _and_ the Teleban.
> >
> > Wrong.
>
> Time for a song while I think of a suitable rejoinder.
>
As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
It would be disastrous to make the same mistake twice,
and entrust our children's fate to the hands of these
sad and complicitous pacifists.
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
It would be disastrous to make the same mistake twice,
and entrust our children's fate to the hands of these
sad and complicitous pacifists.
|
<red...@suntimesmail.com> wrote in message
news:3FF07B80.1079B9AB@
- show quoted text -
How about this....Your an idiot.
--
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
|
<red...@suntimesmail.com> wrote in message
news:3FF07C86.10B41678@
>
>
> "James A. Donald" wrote:
> >
> > --
> > Morrissey Breen:
> > > 1.) Get down to your local library NOW.
> > > 2.) Take out a membership card (yep - somethin' tells moi that you
> > > don't go near libraries very often. Am I right... or am I right?)
> > > 3.) Get out, say, FIVE books.
> > > 4.) Make sure at least one of them is by Noam Chomsky.
> >
> > If you guys ever read two books about recent history, one not by Noam
> > Chomsky, you would have discovered that the one not by Noam Chomsky
> > reports a world unrecognizably different from the one by Noam Chomsky.
> >
> > To take the most recent sample, I was just arguing with someone about
> > the events of the Chilean coup. The guy I was arguing with gave the
> > Chomsky version. I pulled a book of Chilean history at random from
> > the shelves, it contradicted the Chomsky version of events up and down
> > on the points we were arguing.
> >
http://groups.google.com/
> >
> > Since 1977, Chomsky has been out in la la land,
> > singing to the cuckoos.
>
> You are wrong there ........ try '67
Both dates are wrong as Chomsky is quite sane.
Although your mental-health is in question.
--
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
|
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:08:34 -0500, red...@suntimesmail.com wrote:
>> Time for a song while I think of a suitable rejoinder.
>>
>How about this?
>
>As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
>armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
>It would be disastrous to make the same mistake twice,
>and entrust our children's fate to the hands of these
>sad and complicitous pacifists.
>>
>How about this?
>
>As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
>armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
>It would be disastrous to make the same mistake twice,
>and entrust our children's fate to the hands of these
>sad and complicitous pacifists.
Orwell wrote a few books. That doesn't make him an expert on anything.
His opinion is no better than mine. Pacificism is not blind worship of
force no matter how many times Orwell claims it is.
His opinion is no better than mine. Pacificism is not blind worship of
force no matter how many times Orwell claims it is.
*****
"For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
and death beautiful." - S. Dali
*****
"For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
and death beautiful." - S. Dali
*****
|
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:50:02 +0930, David Pears
<dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote:
<dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote:
>On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:05:51 GMT, ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
>>>>This Adolf Chomsky has a brother who predicted 3-4million civilian
>>>>deaths due to the American liberation of that country. What a pair of
>>>>fuckwits.
>>>
>>>Oops... "that country" = Afghanistan.
>>
>>The count isn't complete yet, Mr. Pears. Give them some time. they've
>>got two middle eastern countries to get under their thumbs.
>
>What do those deaths have to do with predicted (rather badly, I might
>add) deaths in Afghanistan? You do realise that these are different
>countries with different people, even if they do all look the same to
>you?
>
>>>>This Adolf Chomsky has a brother who predicted 3-4million civilian
>>>>deaths due to the American liberation of that country. What a pair of
>>>>fuckwits.
>>>
>>>Oops... "that country" = Afghanistan.
>>
>>The count isn't complete yet, Mr. Pears. Give them some time. they've
>>got two middle eastern countries to get under their thumbs.
>
>What do those deaths have to do with predicted (rather badly, I might
>add) deaths in Afghanistan? You do realise that these are different
>countries with different people, even if they do all look the same to
>you?
Of course I do. That's why I said TWO middle eastern countries. They
don't all look the same to me. Why would you assume such a thing?
Chinese don't all look the same to me either. In fact, the only time I
could imagine being where everyone looked like each other would be at
a twins convention.
don't all look the same to me. Why would you assume such a thing?
Chinese don't all look the same to me either. In fact, the only time I
could imagine being where everyone looked like each other would be at
a twins convention.
What I am saying is that the deaths may not be the direct result of
bullets or bombs. There are the deaths to be accounted for by the
desctruction of medical facilities, infrrastructure that provides
clean water, lack of food etc.
bullets or bombs. There are the deaths to be accounted for by the
desctruction of medical facilities, infrrastructure that provides
clean water, lack of food etc.
It takes time to kill that many people. They're a little busy right
now with a second front.
now with a second front.
>
>BTW, did you realise that the life expectancy for women living in
>Taliban era Afghanistan was something like 40 or 42 years? To me,
>that sounds like a genocide. Nice that someone has done something to
>help, even if it was a secondary effect of the need to shit all over
>al Qaeda.
You haven't presented any figures that show that the life expectancy
of women has improved since the invasion.
of women has improved since the invasion.
*****
"For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
and death beautiful." - S. Dali
*****
"For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
and death beautiful." - S. Dali
*****
|
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:01:30 +0800, "FRANKIE LEE"
<s964...@singnet.com.sg> wrote:
<s964...@singnet.com.sg> wrote:
>
>His definition of 4 year term of USA Presidency as dictatorship,and it has
>no remote resemblence to the definition of what a Dictatorship is.
>His definition of 4 year term of USA Presidency as dictatorship,and it has
>no remote resemblence to the definition of what a Dictatorship is.
If you have no choice, it's dictatorship. In America, there are no
real choices. You can vote for one or the other and they're both
controlled by the same people.
real choices. You can vote for one or the other and they're both
controlled by the same people.
>
>Morrissey Breen declared that anti-USA government is not
>Anti-Americans.Anti-USA government is not a Traitor,if your words has any
>meaning.
>If we were to accept your views and Morrissey Breen,and also Chomsky,then
>revolt and rebellion,as declared by Osama are legitimised.USA government
>must be brought down,is it not?
It must be returned to the People.
>
>Since the Government of USA is so corrupt,to the extent as being equal to
>Hitler's Fascisms,describe by you guys,then you guys are correct to be
>anti-fascists.Anarchy and unrest for your nations would be the order of the
>day,is it not?
Being against fascism doesn't mean that you will live in anarchy.
>
>By being anti-establishment,the order of governments,and by that acts are
>not Traitor's motivation,then what is?
So you're saying that if you criticize the government, you are a
traitor? Bullshit.
traitor? Bullshit.
>Contrary,it is your extreme views and Chomsky,which is trying to undermine
>the rules of Government,and its constitution.
>the rules of Government,and its constitution.
Your're so wrong. He's trying to show how government has gone away
from the Constitution.
from the Constitution.
>That interests to harm Americans,as set out by Osama,bore no differance to
>the mindset of Terrorists.
>
>Windschuttle's truths hurt badly,and he/she is the one who questions the
>motives and hidden agendas of Chomsky,and laying out in the open for all to
>see.He/she makes the Truths uncomfortable for you guys,surely you guys are
>convicted as Traitors,as we see it.
>the mindset of Terrorists.
>
>Windschuttle's truths hurt badly,and he/she is the one who questions the
>motives and hidden agendas of Chomsky,and laying out in the open for all to
>see.He/she makes the Truths uncomfortable for you guys,surely you guys are
>convicted as Traitors,as we see it.
Fuck you. You have no idea what a traitor is.
*****
"For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
and death beautiful." - S. Dali
*****
"For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
and death beautiful." - S. Dali
*****
|
David Pears <dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote in message news:<vb90vv8ip5tju534dqbkc0qc
>
> Er, the US were never matey with the Taliban.
>
> And what is this about my "old pal Saddam"? I have been consistent in
> supporting those who are prepared to do something to remove Saddam
> from office.
>
> Er, the US were never matey with the Taliban.
Yes they were. Reagan extolled them as "heroes of freedom".
>
> Altho I suppose you've
> constructed some odd theory involving lots of facists to "prove" how
> it all happened in your own fantasy world.
> Altho I suppose you've
> constructed some odd theory involving lots of facists to "prove" how
> it all happened in your own fantasy world.
The only one "constructing" anything (i.e., lying) is you.
>
> And what is this about my "old pal Saddam"? I have been consistent in
> supporting those who are prepared to do something to remove Saddam
> from office.
What about in the 1980s, when U.S. special envoy DONALD RUMSFELD was
repeatedly hurrying to Baghdad to assure the U.S. ally Saddam Hussein
that the U.S. "condemnation" of chemical weapons was "in principle
only" and that Saddam, as a valued U.S. ally, was free to keep gassing
Kurds and other forces of instability in Iraq? And especially those
fuckin' IRANIANS! I guess you were supporting those reptiles even
when they were SUPPORTING Saddam, not trying to remove him from
office.
repeatedly hurrying to Baghdad to assure the U.S. ally Saddam Hussein
that the U.S. "condemnation" of chemical weapons was "in principle
only" and that Saddam, as a valued U.S. ally, was free to keep gassing
Kurds and other forces of instability in Iraq? And especially those
fuckin' IRANIANS! I guess you were supporting those reptiles even
when they were SUPPORTING Saddam, not trying to remove him from
office.
>
> If you want one of his old pals, look no further than
> those who would have sat around indefinitely while he killed millions
> more Iraqis, Iranians, and Kuwaitis.
> If you want one of his old pals, look no further than
> those who would have sat around indefinitely while he killed millions
> more Iraqis, Iranians, and Kuwaitis.
Like the U.S. government.
>
> You'll be glad the loya jirga has extended equal rights to all women
> today. That would have made the liberation of Afghanistan worthwhile,
> even if 911 had never happened.
> You'll be glad the loya jirga has extended equal rights to all women
> today. That would have made the liberation of Afghanistan worthwhile,
> even if 911 had never happened.
So let's get this straight: killing children, half of them GIRLS, is
"liberating" them?
"liberating" them?
|
ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
- show quoted text -
"Animal Farm" and "1984" accurately described the Soviet Union. And
Orwell was a Socialist.
Orwell was a Socialist.
|
janice <janice_g_@_free.net.nz> wrote in message news:<3ff0...@news.compass.
>
> But it was the homely touches which swayed the Taliban. When the delegation
> left Texas, one of their entourage stayed behind. Mullah Mohammad Ghaus,
> the former foreign minister and a leading member of the Taliban ruling
> council, remained in Texas for medical treatment. Years on the front line
> damaged his eyesight. Unocal bought him a battery-powered magnifying glass
> and are paying for him to go to an optician.
>
> But it was the homely touches which swayed the Taliban. When the delegation
> left Texas, one of their entourage stayed behind. Mullah Mohammad Ghaus,
> the former foreign minister and a leading member of the Taliban ruling
> council, remained in Texas for medical treatment. Years on the front line
> damaged his eyesight. Unocal bought him a battery-powered magnifying glass
> and are paying for him to go to an optician.
Say... was Mullah Mohammad Gauss the guy with the eye-patch who
resembled a pirate? He used to be on the TV all the time for those
Taliban press conferences in October 2001.
resembled a pirate? He used to be on the TV all the time for those
Taliban press conferences in October 2001.
|
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:57:14 GMT, ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>>>>>This Adolf Chomsky has a brother who predicted 3-4million civilian
>>>>>deaths due to the American liberation of that country. What a pair of
>>>>>fuckwits.
>>>>
>>>>Oops... "that country" = Afghanistan.
>>>
>>>The count isn't complete yet, Mr. Pears. Give them some time. they've
>>>got two middle eastern countries to get under their thumbs.
>>
>>What do those deaths have to do with predicted (rather badly, I might
>>add) deaths in Afghanistan? You do realise that these are different
>>countries with different people, even if they do all look the same to
>>you?
>
>Of course I do. That's why I said TWO middle eastern countries. They
>don't all look the same to me. Why would you assume such a thing?
>>>>>deaths due to the American liberation of that country. What a pair of
>>>>>fuckwits.
>>>>
>>>>Oops... "that country" = Afghanistan.
>>>
>>>The count isn't complete yet, Mr. Pears. Give them some time. they've
>>>got two middle eastern countries to get under their thumbs.
>>
>>What do those deaths have to do with predicted (rather badly, I might
>>add) deaths in Afghanistan? You do realise that these are different
>>countries with different people, even if they do all look the same to
>>you?
>
>Of course I do. That's why I said TWO middle eastern countries. They
>don't all look the same to me. Why would you assume such a thing?
So if you realise that these are different countries, then how can
deaths in these other countries contribute to a predicted death rate
in Afghanistan?
deaths in these other countries contribute to a predicted death rate
in Afghanistan?
>Chinese don't all look the same to me either. In fact, the only time I
>could imagine being where everyone looked like each other would be at
>a twins convention.
>
>What I am saying is that the deaths may not be the direct result of
>bullets or bombs. There are the deaths to be accounted for by the
>desctruction of medical facilities, infrrastructure that provides
>clean water, lack of food etc.
>could imagine being where everyone looked like each other would be at
>a twins convention.
>
>What I am saying is that the deaths may not be the direct result of
>bullets or bombs. There are the deaths to be accounted for by the
>desctruction of medical facilities, infrrastructure that provides
>clean water, lack of food etc.
If you're saying this, then you've changed your argument. Unless your
argument is that destruction of medical facilities and infrastructure
in these two other un-named countries will cause millions of death in
Afghanistan. Which seems unlikely.
argument is that destruction of medical facilities and infrastructure
in these two other un-named countries will cause millions of death in
Afghanistan. Which seems unlikely.
>It takes time to kill that many people. They're a little busy right
>now with a second front.
>>
>>BTW, did you realise that the life expectancy for women living in
>>Taliban era Afghanistan was something like 40 or 42 years? To me,
>>that sounds like a genocide. Nice that someone has done something to
>>help, even if it was a secondary effect of the need to shit all over
>>al Qaeda.
>
>You haven't presented any figures that show that the life expectancy
>of women has improved since the invasion.
>now with a second front.
>>
>>BTW, did you realise that the life expectancy for women living in
>>Taliban era Afghanistan was something like 40 or 42 years? To me,
>>that sounds like a genocide. Nice that someone has done something to
>>help, even if it was a secondary effect of the need to shit all over
>>al Qaeda.
>
>You haven't presented any figures that show that the life expectancy
>of women has improved since the invasion.
I expect they haven't yet, except for a slight improvement in that
women aren't stoned to death in the football stadium these days. But,
it will improve over time. These things don't change overnight... you
shouldn't take such a short term view of what are long term issues.
women aren't stoned to death in the football stadium these days. But,
it will improve over time. These things don't change overnight... you
shouldn't take such a short term view of what are long term issues.
David
|
Morrissey Breen wrote:
Here we all are frightened to death in our beds because these guys terrify
us, yet here are the Americans wining and dining the Taliban in lavish
comfort down in Texas before a little tete' a tete with the grand poobahs
in Washington. Who doesn't feel conned, tricked and cheated?
- show quoted text -
--
I think they were seaching high and low for a Mohammed guy who was the
leader.
I think they were seaching high and low for a Mohammed guy who was the
leader.
Its just amazing, isnt it?
Here we all are frightened to death in our beds because these guys terrify
us, yet here are the Americans wining and dining the Taliban in lavish
comfort down in Texas before a little tete' a tete with the grand poobahs
in Washington. Who doesn't feel conned, tricked and cheated?
|
On 29 Dec 2003 13:21:04 -0800, morriss...@yahoo.com (Morrissey
Breen) wrote:
it to Ronald Reagan.
>> And what is this about my "old pal Saddam"? I have been consistent in
>> supporting those who are prepared to do something to remove Saddam
>> from office.
>
>What about in the 1980s, when U.S. special envoy DONALD RUMSFELD was
>repeatedly hurrying to Baghdad to assure the U.S. ally Saddam Hussein
>that the U.S. "condemnation" of chemical weapons was "in principle
>only" and that Saddam, as a valued U.S. ally, was free to keep gassing
>Kurds and other forces of instability in Iraq? And especially those
>fuckin' IRANIANS! I guess you were supporting those reptiles even
>when they were SUPPORTING Saddam, not trying to remove him from
>office.
>> You'll be glad the loya jirga has extended equal rights to all women
>> today. That would have made the liberation of Afghanistan worthwhile,
>> even if 911 had never happened.
>
>So let's get this straight: killing children, half of them GIRLS, is
>"liberating" them?
Breen) wrote:
>> Er, the US were never matey with the Taliban.
>
>Yes they were. Reagan extolled them as "heroes of freedom".
>
>Yes they were. Reagan extolled them as "heroes of freedom".
The Taliban are a mid 90s group. Reagan was President between 1980 and
1988, and has been pretty well senile ever since. There is no overlap.
Hence, what you say here is about as accurate as what you say
elsewhere. Not very.
1988, and has been pretty well senile ever since. There is no overlap.
Hence, what you say here is about as accurate as what you say
elsewhere. Not very.
>> Altho I suppose you've
>> constructed some odd theory involving lots of facists to "prove" how
>> it all happened in your own fantasy world.
>
>The only one "constructing" anything (i.e., lying) is you.
Er, you're the one who pulled a quote out of his arse and attributed>> constructed some odd theory involving lots of facists to "prove" how
>> it all happened in your own fantasy world.
>
>The only one "constructing" anything (i.e., lying) is you.
it to Ronald Reagan.
>> And what is this about my "old pal Saddam"? I have been consistent in
>> supporting those who are prepared to do something to remove Saddam
>> from office.
>
>What about in the 1980s, when U.S. special envoy DONALD RUMSFELD was
>repeatedly hurrying to Baghdad to assure the U.S. ally Saddam Hussein
>that the U.S. "condemnation" of chemical weapons was "in principle
>only" and that Saddam, as a valued U.S. ally, was free to keep gassing
>Kurds and other forces of instability in Iraq? And especially those
>fuckin' IRANIANS! I guess you were supporting those reptiles even
>when they were SUPPORTING Saddam, not trying to remove him from
>office.
As you've been told repeatedly, with evidence, the US opposed the use
of chemical weapons by Iraq.
of chemical weapons by Iraq.
But, since your allegation concerns me, you'll be happy to hear that I
was rooting for Iran in the Iran-Iraq War. IMHO, Iran is one of the
more reasonable countries in the Middle East, and will be a decent
place once they overthrow the mullahs who oppress them. Which won't be
a long time coming, I suspect
was rooting for Iran in the Iran-Iraq War. IMHO, Iran is one of the
more reasonable countries in the Middle East, and will be a decent
place once they overthrow the mullahs who oppress them. Which won't be
a long time coming, I suspect
>> If you want one of his old pals, look no further than
>> those who would have sat around indefinitely while he killed millions
>> more Iraqis, Iranians, and Kuwaitis.
>
>Like the U.S. government.
>> those who would have sat around indefinitely while he killed millions
>> more Iraqis, Iranians, and Kuwaitis.
>
>Like the U.S. government.
Are you completely oblivious to current affairs? Did you miss the
whole "US invades Iraq" bizzo this year? The US, UK, Australia and a
few other countries weren't prepared to sit on their arses and so did
something about Saddam. And have probably saved 2 or 3 million lives
over the next 20 years.
whole "US invades Iraq" bizzo this year? The US, UK, Australia and a
few other countries weren't prepared to sit on their arses and so did
something about Saddam. And have probably saved 2 or 3 million lives
over the next 20 years.
>> You'll be glad the loya jirga has extended equal rights to all women
>> today. That would have made the liberation of Afghanistan worthwhile,
>> even if 911 had never happened.
>
>So let's get this straight: killing children, half of them GIRLS, is
>"liberating" them?
Of course not. But casualties are an inevitable side effect of any
liberation by force, as they were in France in 1944, Germany in 1945,
or Kuwait in 1991. We should be glad that the casualties were so low
in Afghanistan... like I've pointed out, the sad wanker known as Noam
Chomsky was predicting 3-4 million, whereas actual numbers were in the
low hundreds. And if we can increase the life expectancy of these
GIRLS from 40 years to a modest 60, then both they and I will be
happy, no matter how miserable it makes you.
liberation by force, as they were in France in 1944, Germany in 1945,
or Kuwait in 1991. We should be glad that the casualties were so low
in Afghanistan... like I've pointed out, the sad wanker known as Noam
Chomsky was predicting 3-4 million, whereas actual numbers were in the
low hundreds. And if we can increase the life expectancy of these
GIRLS from 40 years to a modest 60, then both they and I will be
happy, no matter how miserable it makes you.
David
|
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:53:16 +1300, LeftAintRight <kda...@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
wrote:
>ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Orwell wrote a few books. That doesn't make him an expert on anything.
>> His opinion is no better than mine. Pacificism is not blind worship of
>> force no matter how many times Orwell claims it is.
>>
>> *****
>> "For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
>> and death beautiful." - S. Dali
>> *****
>
>"Animal Farm" and "1984" accurately described the Soviet Union. And
>Orwell was a Socialist.
>> Orwell wrote a few books. That doesn't make him an expert on anything.
>> His opinion is no better than mine. Pacificism is not blind worship of
>> force no matter how many times Orwell claims it is.
>>
>> *****
>> "For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
>> and death beautiful." - S. Dali
>> *****
>
>"Animal Farm" and "1984" accurately described the Soviet Union. And
>Orwell was a Socialist.
I'm sorry to have to disagree with you, but I don't believe that 1984
came anywhere close to describing the Soviet Union. I never read
Animal Farm.
came anywhere close to describing the Soviet Union. I never read
Animal Farm.
*****
"For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
and death beautiful." - S. Dali
*****
"For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
and death beautiful." - S. Dali
*****
|
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:21:21 +0930, David Pears
<dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote:
<dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:57:14 GMT, ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>So if you realise that these are different countries, then how can
>deaths in these other countries contribute to a predicted death rate
>in Afghanistan?
>deaths in these other countries contribute to a predicted death rate
>in Afghanistan?
I don't. I just said that it will take some time to kill that many
people and with a war on another front, they can't direct all their
attention to killing Afghanis.
people and with a war on another front, they can't direct all their
attention to killing Afghanis.
>
>>Chinese don't all look the same to me either. In fact, the only time I
>>could imagine being where everyone looked like each other would be at
>>a twins convention.
>>
>>What I am saying is that the deaths may not be the direct result of
>>bullets or bombs. There are the deaths to be accounted for by the
>>desctruction of medical facilities, infrrastructure that provides
>>clean water, lack of food etc.
>
>If you're saying this, then you've changed your argument. Unless your
>argument is that destruction of medical facilities and infrastructure
>in these two other un-named countries will cause millions of death in
>Afghanistan. Which seems unlikely.
>>Chinese don't all look the same to me either. In fact, the only time I
>>could imagine being where everyone looked like each other would be at
>>a twins convention.
>>
>>What I am saying is that the deaths may not be the direct result of
>>bullets or bombs. There are the deaths to be accounted for by the
>>desctruction of medical facilities, infrrastructure that provides
>>clean water, lack of food etc.
>
>If you're saying this, then you've changed your argument. Unless your
>argument is that destruction of medical facilities and infrastructure
>in these two other un-named countries will cause millions of death in
>Afghanistan. Which seems unlikely.
I haven't changed anything. I didn't make an argument. I just said
that Chomsky may be right...in time.
that Chomsky may be right...in time.
>>>
>>>BTW, did you realise that the life expectancy for women living in
>>>Taliban era Afghanistan was something like 40 or 42 years? To me,
>>>that sounds like a genocide. Nice that someone has done something to
>>>help, even if it was a secondary effect of the need to shit all over
>>>al Qaeda.
>>
>>You haven't presented any figures that show that the life expectancy
>>of women has improved since the invasion.
>
>I expect they haven't yet, except for a slight improvement in that
>women aren't stoned to death in the football stadium these days. But,
>it will improve over time. These things don't change overnight... you
>shouldn't take such a short term view of what are long term issues.
>
I'm not taking any view with regards to these issues. You brought up
life expectancy and I have simply said that without evidence to the
contrary, it remains the same under the US as it did under the
Taliban.
life expectancy and I have simply said that without evidence to the
contrary, it remains the same under the US as it did under the
Taliban.
*****
"For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
and death beautiful." - S. Dali
*****
|
David Pears wrote:
> On 29 Dec 2003 13:21:04 -0800, morriss...@yahoo.com (Morrissey
> Breen) wrote:
>
>>> Er, the US were never matey with the Taliban.
>>
>>Yes they were. Reagan extolled them as "heroes of freedom".
>
> The Taliban are a mid 90s group.
> Breen) wrote:
>
>>> Er, the US were never matey with the Taliban.
>>
>>Yes they were. Reagan extolled them as "heroes of freedom".
>
> The Taliban are a mid 90s group.
The Taliban arose from sectors of the mujahadeen. They were
a militarised fighting group well trained in the arts of war
who owed their skills to both American and Saudi money.
3 billion dollars from the Americans alone.
a militarised fighting group well trained in the arts of war
who owed their skills to both American and Saudi money.
3 billion dollars from the Americans alone.
|
- show quoted text -
1984 was about what it was like living in a totalitarian state.
According to a tv doco I saw some time ago Russians used to wonder how
Orwell got it so right.
According to a tv doco I saw some time ago Russians used to wonder how
Orwell got it so right.
As for Animal Farm:
The communist myth - "All animals are created equal"
The communist reality - "But some are more equal than others"
The communist myth - "All animals are created equal"
The communist reality - "But some are more equal than others"
|
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 01:36:06 GMT, ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>>So if you realise that these are different countries, then how can
>>deaths in these other countries contribute to a predicted death rate
>>in Afghanistan?
>
>I don't. I just said that it will take some time to kill that many
>people and with a war on another front, they can't direct all their
>attention to killing Afghanis.
>>deaths in these other countries contribute to a predicted death rate
>>in Afghanistan?
>
>I don't. I just said that it will take some time to kill that many
>people and with a war on another front, they can't direct all their
>attention to killing Afghanis.
There is something to be said for making "don't bother arguing with
the clearly deranged" one of my new year's resolutions. But in the
mean time...
the clearly deranged" one of my new year's resolutions. But in the
mean time...
So, you're claiming that killing 3-4 million Afghanis, as predicted by
Chomsky, is actually part of the US's plans? Presumably you have some
explanation as to why they would want to do this that makes perfect
sense to you and probably Breen, but not to the rest of us. But surely
you've noticed that the US has air assets to spare, and it wouldn't
take long to reduce Kandahar, Kabul, and a few other Afghan cities to
rubble. So why aren't they doing this? Or, in your parrallel universe,
have they already conducted a strike by multiple B52s against Kandahar
and killed every man, woman, and child living there?
Chomsky, is actually part of the US's plans? Presumably you have some
explanation as to why they would want to do this that makes perfect
sense to you and probably Breen, but not to the rest of us. But surely
you've noticed that the US has air assets to spare, and it wouldn't
take long to reduce Kandahar, Kabul, and a few other Afghan cities to
rubble. So why aren't they doing this? Or, in your parrallel universe,
have they already conducted a strike by multiple B52s against Kandahar
and killed every man, woman, and child living there?
David
|
LeftAintRight wrote:
> 1984 was about what it was like living in a totalitarian state.
> 1984 was about what it was like living in a totalitarian state.
If you knew anything about the subject at all, you would know that Orwell
would never have been published had he been more honest about the threat
he saw looming.
would never have been published had he been more honest about the threat
he saw looming.
Can you get any structure more totalitarian, than the corporation?
|
ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
> On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:53:16 +1300, LeftAintRight <kda...@ihug.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
> >ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
> >
>
> >>
> >> Orwell wrote a few books. That doesn't make him an expert on anything.
> >> His opinion is no better than mine. Pacificism is not blind worship of
> >> force no matter how many times Orwell claims it is.
>
> On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:53:16 +1300, LeftAintRight <kda...@ihug.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
> >ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
> >
>
> >>
> >> Orwell wrote a few books. That doesn't make him an expert on anything.
> >> His opinion is no better than mine. Pacificism is not blind worship of
> >> force no matter how many times Orwell claims it is.
That is only what you think and you think wrong!
--
As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
It would be disastrous to make the same
mistake twice, and entrust our children's fate to the
hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
It would be disastrous to make the same
mistake twice, and entrust our children's fate to the
hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
|
janice wrote:
- show quoted text -
Me thinks you've been watching too many old Apple commercials
|
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:52:36 +1300, LeftAintRight <kda...@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
>
>As for Animal Farm:
>The communist myth - "All animals are created equal"
>
wrote:
>ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
>1984 was about what it was like living in a totalitarian state.
>According to a tv doco I saw some time ago Russians used to wonder how
>Orwell got it so right.
>1984 was about what it was like living in a totalitarian state.
>According to a tv doco I saw some time ago Russians used to wonder how
>Orwell got it so right.
But he wasn't writing about the Soviet Union. He was writing about the
future of Britain.
future of Britain.
>
>As for Animal Farm:
>The communist myth - "All animals are created equal"
Pardon me? That's preamble to the US Constitution.
>The communist reality - "But some are more equal than others"
That's the reality of life. It's not limited to Communists.
>
*****
"For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
and death beautiful." - S. Dali
*****
"For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
and death beautiful." - S. Dali
*****
|
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 00:26:48 -0500, red...@suntimesmail.com wrote:
>
>
>ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:53:16 +1300, LeftAintRight <kda...@ihug.co.nz>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>> >
>>
>> >>
>> >> Orwell wrote a few books. That doesn't make him an expert on anything.
>> >> His opinion is no better than mine. Pacificism is not blind worship of
>> >> force no matter how many times Orwell claims it is.
>
>That is only what you think and you think wrong!
>
>ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:53:16 +1300, LeftAintRight <kda...@ihug.co.nz>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>> >
>>
>> >>
>> >> Orwell wrote a few books. That doesn't make him an expert on anything.
>> >> His opinion is no better than mine. Pacificism is not blind worship of
>> >> force no matter how many times Orwell claims it is.
>
>That is only what you think and you think wrong!
You are certainly welcome to your opinion. Of course it holds no
greater power than my own.
greater power than my own.
>
>
>
>--
>
>As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
>armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
>It would be disastrous to make the same
>mistake twice, and entrust our children's fate to the
>hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
*****
"For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
and death beautiful." - S. Dali
*****
|
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:15:04 +0930, David Pears
<dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote:
<dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 01:36:06 GMT, ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
>>>So if you realise that these are different countries, then how can
>>>deaths in these other countries contribute to a predicted death rate
>>>in Afghanistan?
>>
>>I don't. I just said that it will take some time to kill that many
>>people and with a war on another front, they can't direct all their
>>attention to killing Afghanis.
>
>There is something to be said for making "don't bother arguing with
>the clearly deranged" one of my new year's resolutions. But in the
>mean time...
>
>So, you're claiming that killing 3-4 million Afghanis, as predicted by
>Chomsky, is actually part of the US's plans?
>
>>>So if you realise that these are different countries, then how can
>>>deaths in these other countries contribute to a predicted death rate
>>>in Afghanistan?
>>
>>I don't. I just said that it will take some time to kill that many
>>people and with a war on another front, they can't direct all their
>>attention to killing Afghanis.
>
>There is something to be said for making "don't bother arguing with
>the clearly deranged" one of my new year's resolutions. But in the
>mean time...
>
>So, you're claiming that killing 3-4 million Afghanis, as predicted by
>Chomsky, is actually part of the US's plans?
You obviously have no sense of sarcasm.
*****
"For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
and death beautiful." - S. Dali
*****
|
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:57:14 GMT, ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>>BTW, did you realise that the life expectancy for women living in
>>Taliban era Afghanistan was something like 40 or 42 years? To me,
>>that sounds like a genocide. Nice that someone has done something to
>>help, even if it was a secondary effect of the need to shit all over
>>al Qaeda.
>
>You haven't presented any figures that show that the life expectancy
>of women has improved since the invasion.
>>Taliban era Afghanistan was something like 40 or 42 years? To me,
>>that sounds like a genocide. Nice that someone has done something to
>>help, even if it was a secondary effect of the need to shit all over
>>al Qaeda.
>
>You haven't presented any figures that show that the life expectancy
>of women has improved since the invasion.
Neither has he presented any figures for female life expectancy
under the regime which preceded the Taliban, or the one which
preceded that.
under the regime which preceded the Taliban, or the one which
preceded that.
Any bets?
Brian Dooley
Wellington New Zealand
|
ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:52:36 +1300, LeftAintRight <kda...@ihug.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
>
>>ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
>
>>1984 was about what it was like living in a totalitarian state.
>>According to a tv doco I saw some time ago Russians used to wonder how
>>Orwell got it so right.
>
>
> But he wasn't writing about the Soviet Union. He was writing about the
> future of Britain.
> wrote:
>
>
>>ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
>
>>1984 was about what it was like living in a totalitarian state.
>>According to a tv doco I saw some time ago Russians used to wonder how
>>Orwell got it so right.
>
>
> But he wasn't writing about the Soviet Union. He was writing about the
> future of Britain.
He was writing about totalitarianism. The USSR was a totalitarian nation.
>
>>As for Animal Farm:
>>The communist myth - "All animals are created equal"
>>As for Animal Farm:
>>The communist myth - "All animals are created equal"
My mistake. It should be "All animals are equal". Later in the story
Napolean the pig adds the words "but some are more equal than others."
Napolean the pig adds the words "but some are more equal than others."
>
>
> Pardon me? That's preamble to the US Constitution.
>
>
>>The communist reality - "But some are more equal than others"
>
>
> That's the reality of life. It's not limited to Communists.
>
>
> *****
> "For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
> and death beautiful." - S. Dali
> *****
>
> Pardon me? That's preamble to the US Constitution.
>
>
>>The communist reality - "But some are more equal than others"
>
>
> That's the reality of life. It's not limited to Communists.
>
>
> *****
> "For me eroticism must be ugly, the aesthetic always divine,
> and death beautiful." - S. Dali
> *****
|
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:48:12 GMT, ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>>>>So if you realise that these are different countries, then how can
>>>>deaths in these other countries contribute to a predicted death rate
>>>>in Afghanistan?
>>>
>>>I don't. I just said that it will take some time to kill that many
>>>people and with a war on another front, they can't direct all their
>>>attention to killing Afghanis.
>>
>>There is something to be said for making "don't bother arguing with
>>the clearly deranged" one of my new year's resolutions. But in the
>>mean time...
>>
>>So, you're claiming that killing 3-4 million Afghanis, as predicted by
>>Chomsky, is actually part of the US's plans?
>
>You obviously have no sense of sarcasm.
>>>>deaths in these other countries contribute to a predicted death rate
>>>>in Afghanistan?
>>>
>>>I don't. I just said that it will take some time to kill that many
>>>people and with a war on another front, they can't direct all their
>>>attention to killing Afghanis.
>>
>>There is something to be said for making "don't bother arguing with
>>the clearly deranged" one of my new year's resolutions. But in the
>>mean time...
>>
>>So, you're claiming that killing 3-4 million Afghanis, as predicted by
>>Chomsky, is actually part of the US's plans?
>
>You obviously have no sense of sarcasm.
I do, but must have missed it in this case.
But I'm pleased that you too think that Noam Chomsky is deserving of
sarcasm. It won't be long till you join me in taking the piss out of
this group's own lunatic fringe.
sarcasm. It won't be long till you join me in taking the piss out of
this group's own lunatic fringe.
David
|
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:42:43 +0930, David Pears
<dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote:
<dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:48:12 GMT, ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
>>>>>So if you realise that these are different countries, then how can
>>>>>deaths in these other countries contribute to a predicted death rate
>>>>>in Afghanistan?
>>>>
>>>>I don't. I just said that it will take some time to kill that many
>>>>people and with a war on another front, they can't direct all their
>>>>attention to killing Afghanis.
>>>
>>>There is something to be said for making "don't bother arguing with
>>>the clearly deranged" one of my new year's resolutions. But in the
>>>mean time...
>>>
>>>So, you're claiming that killing 3-4 million Afghanis, as predicted by
>>>Chomsky, is actually part of the US's plans?
>>
>>You obviously have no sense of sarcasm.
>
>I do, but must have missed it in this case.
>
>>>>>So if you realise that these are different countries, then how can
>>>>>deaths in these other countries contribute to a predicted death rate
>>>>>in Afghanistan?
>>>>
>>>>I don't. I just said that it will take some time to kill that many
>>>>people and with a war on another front, they can't direct all their
>>>>attention to killing Afghanis.
>>>
>>>There is something to be said for making "don't bother arguing with
>>>the clearly deranged" one of my new year's resolutions. But in the
>>>mean time...
>>>
>>>So, you're claiming that killing 3-4 million Afghanis, as predicted by
>>>Chomsky, is actually part of the US's plans?
>>
>>You obviously have no sense of sarcasm.
>
>I do, but must have missed it in this case.
"...they can't direct all their attention to killing Afghanis."
Jesus, how much more obvious to I have to get?
Jesus, how much more obvious to I have to get?
>
>But I'm pleased that you too think that Noam Chomsky is deserving of
>sarcasm. It won't be long till you join me in taking the piss out of
>this group's own lunatic fringe.
On occasion I do believe that he goes too far. However, since he is a
preeminent scientist in the field that I studied in, I have a great
deal of respect for his intellect.
preeminent scientist in the field that I studied in, I have a great
deal of respect for his intellect.
Give up, Mr. Pears. I am not the enemy. I am just another person
trying to understand the world I live in. In real life, I'm dead
funny, and quite entertaining. Wish you could here me speaking these
lines.
*****
The more you complain, the longer God lets you live
trying to understand the world I live in. In real life, I'm dead
funny, and quite entertaining. Wish you could here me speaking these
lines.
*****
The more you complain, the longer God lets you live
|
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 03:43:34 GMT, ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>Give up, Mr. Pears. I am not the enemy. I am just another person
>trying to understand the world I live in. In real life, I'm dead
>funny, and quite entertaining. Wish you could here me speaking these
eek...hear.
*****
The more you complain, the longer God lets you live
|
Laughter wrote:
> >
> >>On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 01:36:06 GMT, ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
> >>
> >>>>So if you realise that these are different countries, then how can
> >>>>deaths in these other countries contribute to a predicted death rate
> >>>>in Afghanistan?
> >>>
> >>>I don't. I just said that it will take some time to kill that many
> >>>people and with a war on another front, they can't direct all their
> >>>attention to killing Afghanis.
> >>
> >>There is something to be said for making "don't bother arguing with
> >>the clearly deranged" one of my new year's resolutions. But in the
> >>mean time...
> >>
> >>So, you're claiming that killing 3-4 million Afghanis, as predicted by
> >>Chomsky, is actually part of the US's plans?
> >
> > You obviously have no sense of sarcasm.
> >
>
> When David Pears make a statement, automatically question it. I just checked
> the search engines for this alleged statement by Chomsky. What Chomsky was
> referring to was the UN Food Agency warnings that millions of Afghanis
> could starve and freeze in the Afghan winter. How many refugess did
> freeze and starve that winter is unknown just as the civilian body count
> from that war in unknown.
>
> See below for the references used by Chomsky.
> ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:15:04 +0930, David Pears
> > <dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:15:04 +0930, David Pears
> > <dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote:
> >
> >>On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 01:36:06 GMT, ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
> >>
> >>>>So if you realise that these are different countries, then how can
> >>>>deaths in these other countries contribute to a predicted death rate
> >>>>in Afghanistan?
> >>>
> >>>I don't. I just said that it will take some time to kill that many
> >>>people and with a war on another front, they can't direct all their
> >>>attention to killing Afghanis.
> >>
> >>There is something to be said for making "don't bother arguing with
> >>the clearly deranged" one of my new year's resolutions. But in the
> >>mean time...
> >>
> >>So, you're claiming that killing 3-4 million Afghanis, as predicted by
> >>Chomsky, is actually part of the US's plans?
> >
> > You obviously have no sense of sarcasm.
> >
>
> the search engines for this alleged statement by Chomsky. What Chomsky was
> referring to was the UN Food Agency warnings that millions of Afghanis
> could starve and freeze in the Afghan winter. How many refugess did
> freeze and starve that winter is unknown just as the civilian body count
> from that war in unknown.
>
> See below for the references used by Chomsky.
All wrong if stating that "millions" would die in Afghanistan.
Classic Chomsky to cite those who are wrong.
JC
|
In article <3ff148d3...@news.xtra.
>On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:52:36 +1300, LeftAintRight <kda...@ihug.co.nz>
>wrote:
>
>>ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
>>1984 was about what it was like living in a totalitarian state.
>>According to a tv doco I saw some time ago Russians used to wonder how
>>Orwell got it so right.
>
>But he wasn't writing about the Soviet Union. He was writing about the
>future of Britain.
>wrote:
>
>>ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
>>1984 was about what it was like living in a totalitarian state.
>>According to a tv doco I saw some time ago Russians used to wonder how
>>Orwell got it so right.
>
>But he wasn't writing about the Soviet Union. He was writing about the
>future of Britain.
He was writing about what it would be like if some future dictator
managed to put together the ultimate in efficient totalitarian
government.
managed to put together the ultimate in efficient totalitarian
government.
Thankfully, nobody has yet managed to achieve that in practice...
|
>On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:57:14 GMT, ta...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
snip--->
>>>BTW, did you realise that the life expectancy for women living in
>>>Taliban era Afghanistan was something like 40 or 42 years? To me,
>>>that sounds like a genocide. Nice that someone has done something to
>>>help, even if it was a secondary effect of the need to shit all over
>>>al Qaeda.
>>
>>You haven't presented any figures that show that the life expectancy
>>of women has improved since the invasion.
>
>I expect they haven't yet, except for a slight improvement in that
>women aren't stoned to death in the football stadium these days. But,
>it will improve over time. These things don't change overnight... you
>shouldn't take such a short term view of what are long term issues.
>>>Taliban era Afghanistan was something like 40 or 42 years? To me,
>>>that sounds like a genocide. Nice that someone has done something to
>>>help, even if it was a secondary effect of the need to shit all over
>>>al Qaeda.
>>
>>You haven't presented any figures that show that the life expectancy
>>of women has improved since the invasion.
>
>I expect they haven't yet, except for a slight improvement in that
>women aren't stoned to death in the football stadium these days. But,
>it will improve over time. These things don't change overnight... you
>shouldn't take such a short term view of what are long term issues.
However a quick google confirmed that, as I remembered, life
expectancy for both sexes has always been low (32 yoa each in
1950). The general idea is that in all societies men die off
earlier, thus a preponderance of old birds, but in less advanced
societies many women die as a result of childbirth, thus
restoring the ratio. If the childbirth anomaly is corrected then
the women roar ahead, which is typical of western societies.
expectancy for both sexes has always been low (32 yoa each in
1950). The general idea is that in all societies men die off
earlier, thus a preponderance of old birds, but in less advanced
societies many women die as a result of childbirth, thus
restoring the ratio. If the childbirth anomaly is corrected then
the women roar ahead, which is typical of western societies.
Nothing in particular has happened in Afghanistan to disturb this
natural occurrence except that recent events have drawn David's
attention to it.
natural occurrence except that recent events have drawn David's
attention to it.
--
Brian Dooley
Wellington New Zealand
|
Laughter wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:15:04 +0930, David Pears
> >> > <dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote:
> >
> >> >>So, you're claiming that killing 3-4 million Afghanis, as predicted by
> >> >>Chomsky, is actually part of the US's plans?
> >> >
> >> > You obviously have no sense of sarcasm.
> >> >
> >>
> >> When David Pears make a statement, automatically question it. I just
> >> checked the search engines for this alleged statement by Chomsky. What
> >> Chomsky was referring to was the UN Food Agency warnings that millions of
> >> Afghanis
> >> could starve and freeze in the Afghan winter. How many refugess did
> >> freeze and starve that winter is unknown just as the civilian body count
> >> from that war in unknown.
> >>
> >> See below for the references used by Chomsky.
> >
> > All wrong if stating that "millions" would die in Afghanistan.
>
> The UN food agencies predicted millions of deaths when drought combined with
> a freezing Afghan winter. Chomsky added that these predictions were being
> complicated by war and the inability of disaster relief to get food aid
> into areas which needed them.
> >>
> >> > On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:15:04 +0930, David Pears
> >> > <dpears...@bigfoot.com.au> wrote:
> >
> >> >>So, you're claiming that killing 3-4 million Afghanis, as predicted by
> >> >>Chomsky, is actually part of the US's plans?
> >> >
> >> > You obviously have no sense of sarcasm.
> >> >
> >>
> >> When David Pears make a statement, automatically question it. I just
> >> checked the search engines for this alleged statement by Chomsky. What
> >> Chomsky was referring to was the UN Food Agency warnings that millions of
> >> Afghanis
> >> could starve and freeze in the Afghan winter. How many refugess did
> >> freeze and starve that winter is unknown just as the civilian body count
> >> from that war in unknown.
> >>
> >> See below for the references used by Chomsky.
> >
> > All wrong if stating that "millions" would die in Afghanistan.
>
> a freezing Afghan winter. Chomsky added that these predictions were being
> complicated by war and the inability of disaster relief to get food aid
> into areas which needed them.
Nope. It wern't quite like that. After 9-11 the media brought our discredited
friend out of the attic, wound him up and let him rip.
friend out of the attic, wound him up and let him rip.
In Sept he blamed the US for stopping Pakistan from importing food into
Afghanistan:
Afghanistan:
"The U.S. has already demanded that Pakistan terminate the food and other
supplies that are keeping at least some of the starving and suffering people of
Afghanistan alive. If that demand is implemented, unknown numbers of people who
have not the remotest connection to terrorism will die, possibly millions. Let
me repeat: the U.S. has demanded that Pakistan kill possibly millions of people
who are themselves victims of the Taliban."
supplies that are keeping at least some of the starving and suffering people of
Afghanistan alive. If that demand is implemented, unknown numbers of people who
have not the remotest connection to terrorism will die, possibly millions. Let
me repeat: the U.S. has demanded that Pakistan kill possibly millions of people
who are themselves victims of the Taliban."
That was laughed off so on Oct 11th he had another try and this time blamed the
US bombing:
US bombing:
"After the first week of bombing, the New York Times reported on a back page
inside a column on something else, that by the arithmetic of the United Nations
there will soon be 7.5 million Afghans in acute need of even a loaf of bread and
there are only a few weeks left before the harsh winter will make deliveries to
many areas totally impossible, continuing to quote, but with bombs falling the
delivery rate is down to 1/2 of what is needed. Casual comment. Which tells us
that Western civilization is anticipating the slaughter of, well do the
arithmetic, 3-4 million people or something like that."
inside a column on something else, that by the arithmetic of the United Nations
there will soon be 7.5 million Afghans in acute need of even a loaf of bread and
there are only a few weeks left before the harsh winter will make deliveries to
many areas totally impossible, continuing to quote, but with bombs falling the
delivery rate is down to 1/2 of what is needed. Casual comment. Which tells us
that Western civilization is anticipating the slaughter of, well do the
arithmetic, 3-4 million people or something like that."
As the evidence that food was indeed getting through he was getting a bit
desperate and needed another tack, this time that the US was stopping seed
sowing that would kill even more people, so on Nov 3rd he said:
desperate and needed another tack, this time that the US was stopping seed
sowing that would kill even more people, so on Nov 3rd he said:
" The U.N. Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO) had already warned, even
before the bombing, that over seven million people would face starvation if
military action were initiated. After the bombing began, it advised that the
threat of a humanitarian catastrophe in the short term was very grave, and
furthermore that the bombing has disrupted the planting of 80 per cent of the
country's grain supplies, so that the effects next year will be even more
severe.
before the bombing, that over seven million people would face starvation if
military action were initiated. After the bombing began, it advised that the
threat of a humanitarian catastrophe in the short term was very grave, and
furthermore that the bombing has disrupted the planting of 80 per cent of the
country's grain supplies, so that the effects next year will be even more
severe.
What the effects will be, we will never know. Starvation is not something
that kills people instantly. People eat roots and leaves and they drag on for a
while. And the effects of starvation may be the death of children born from
malnourished mothers a year or two from now, and all sorts of consequences.
Furthermore, nobody's going to look because the West is not interested in such
things and others don't have the resources."
that kills people instantly. People eat roots and leaves and they drag on for a
while. And the effects of starvation may be the death of children born from
malnourished mothers a year or two from now, and all sorts of consequences.
Furthermore, nobody's going to look because the West is not interested in such
things and others don't have the resources."
When all his predictions turned to shit and was left bare as nothing more than
his usual anti American ranting he said a year or so later:
his usual anti American ranting he said a year or so later:
"Where is the "silent genocide" you predicted would happen in Afghanistan if the
US intervened there in 2001?
Mike Dudley, Ipswich
US intervened there in 2001?
Mike Dudley, Ipswich
That is an interesting fabrication, which gives a good deal of insight into the
prevailing moral and intellectual culture. First, the facts: I predicted
nothing. Rather, I reported the grim warnings from virtually every knowledgeable
source that the attack might lead to an awesome humanitarian catastrophe, and
the bland announcements in the press that Washington had ordered Pakistan to
eliminate "truck convoys that provide much of the food and other supplies to
Afghanistan's civilian population".
prevailing moral and intellectual culture. First, the facts: I predicted
nothing. Rather, I reported the grim warnings from virtually every knowledgeable
source that the attack might lead to an awesome humanitarian catastrophe, and
the bland announcements in the press that Washington had ordered Pakistan to
eliminate "truck convoys that provide much of the food and other supplies to
Afghanistan's civilian population".
All of this is precisely accurate and entirely appropriate. The warnings remain
accurate as well, a truism that should be unnecessary to explain. Unfortunately,
it is apparently necessary to add a moral truism: actions are evaluated in terms
of the range of anticipated consequences."
accurate as well, a truism that should be unnecessary to explain. Unfortunately,
it is apparently necessary to add a moral truism: actions are evaluated in terms
of the range of anticipated consequences."
Now which particular lie, evasion, exaggeration, uncritical acceptance of other
stories and dreamed up references to media reports are you saying he was
referring to?
stories and dreamed up references to media reports are you saying he was
referring to?
JC
|
Laughter wrote:
> the fascist right, which raises an interesting point about liars.
>
> Where are the weapons of mass destruction?
>
> j
> John Cawston wrote:
>
> > Laughter wrote:
> >
> >> John Cawston wrote:
> >>
> >> > Laughter wrote:
> >> >
>
>
> > Laughter wrote:
> >
> >> John Cawston wrote:
> >>
> >> > Laughter wrote:
> >> >
>
> >> >> When David Pears make a statement, automatically question it. I just
> >> >> checked the search engines for this alleged statement by Chomsky. What
> >> >> Chomsky was referring to was the UN Food Agency warnings that millions
> >> >> of Afghanis
> >> >> could starve and freeze in the Afghan winter. How many refugess did
> >> >> freeze and starve that winter is unknown just as the civilian body
> >> >> count from that war in unknown.
> >> >>
> >> >> See below for the references used by Chomsky.
> >> >
> >> > All wrong if stating that "millions" would die in Afghanistan.
> >>
> >> The UN food agencies predicted millions of deaths when drought combined
> >> with
> >> a freezing Afghan winter. Chomsky added that these predictions were
> >> being
> >> complicated by war and the inability of disaster relief to get food aid
> >> into areas which needed them.
> >
> > Nope. It wern't quite like that. After 9-11 the media brought our
> > discredited friend out of the attic, wound him up and let him rip.
>
> You do mean 'defamed' rather than discredited and only by your friends on> >> >> checked the search engines for this alleged statement by Chomsky. What
> >> >> Chomsky was referring to was the UN Food Agency warnings that millions
> >> >> of Afghanis
> >> >> could starve and freeze in the Afghan winter. How many refugess did
> >> >> freeze and starve that winter is unknown just as the civilian body
> >> >> count from that war in unknown.
> >> >>
> >> >> See below for the references used by Chomsky.
> >> >
> >> > All wrong if stating that "millions" would die in Afghanistan.
> >>
> >> The UN food agencies predicted millions of deaths when drought combined
> >> with
> >> a freezing Afghan winter. Chomsky added that these predictions were
> >> being
> >> complicated by war and the inability of disaster relief to get food aid
> >> into areas which needed them.
> >
> > Nope. It wern't quite like that. After 9-11 the media brought our
> > discredited friend out of the attic, wound him up and let him rip.
>
> the fascist right, which raises an interesting point about liars.
>
> Where are the weapons of mass destruction?
>
> j
Wot. Giving up so soon?
JC
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