Q+A: Barnett and Homes meet their match in Helen Kelly
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Preliminary comment by JACK A. NAPES, for Daisycutter Sports Inc. ....
This is billed as an "interview", but it's more of an attempted
mugging. Unfortunately for Barnett and Holmes, Kelly is not
intimidated by their antics. She remains polite and perfectly composed
throughout, unlike her two opponents. Holmes interrupts Helen Kelly
nearly every time she speaks, and Barnett interrupts her three times.
But all this fails to upset her; she's an experienced union
negotiator, and these two are lightweights compared to some business
and union leaders she meets routinely. Barnett gets really angry when
Kelly points out that he's a slack employer: "You yourself don't
comply with the guidelines." Holmes calls her "clueless" twice and he
swears angrily on two occasions. Note the way that Holmes won't let
her speak even at the end, shouting: "No, Helen's had ENOUGH!"
This is billed as an "interview", but it's more of an attempted
mugging. Unfortunately for Barnett and Holmes, Kelly is not
intimidated by their antics. She remains polite and perfectly composed
throughout, unlike her two opponents. Holmes interrupts Helen Kelly
nearly every time she speaks, and Barnett interrupts her three times.
But all this fails to upset her; she's an experienced union
negotiator, and these two are lightweights compared to some business
and union leaders she meets routinely. Barnett gets really angry when
Kelly points out that he's a slack employer: "You yourself don't
comply with the guidelines." Holmes calls her "clueless" twice and he
swears angrily on two occasions. Note the way that Holmes won't let
her speak even at the end, shouting: "No, Helen's had ENOUGH!"
Q+A: Interview with Helen Kelly and John Barnett
Published: 4:12PM Sunday October 24, 2010 Source: Q+A
Related News
Paul Holmes interviews Helen Kelly and John Barnett about the saga
surrounding filming of The Hobbit.
Published: 4:12PM Sunday October 24, 2010 Source: Q+A
Related News
Paul Holmes interviews Helen Kelly and John Barnett about the saga
surrounding filming of The Hobbit.
PAUL: We are joined by two folk at the heart of negotiations. Helen
Kelly is president of the Combined Trade Unions, and John Barnett is
the managing director of South Pacific Picture - very experienced film
man. Of course, one of the most experienced film people in this
country. So Helen Kelly, we'll start with you first of all. Good
morning.
HELEN KELLY: Good morning.
PAUL: So, what we've got is the actors now in FULL RETREAT. What we've
seen after last week with your handling of things is a complete
failure for the union movement. That's so, isn't it?
HELEN: Well, no, actually, Paul, this dispute wasn't settled last
week. It was settled the week before with encouragement from Peter
Jackson, who sent several emails to me saying, 'I'm encouraging SPADA
to meet and to talk through all the issues and find a resolution.'
That's what I did. I stepped into this dispute only at the end of
September to help the parties find a way through. We've found a way
through. It's completely settled...
PAUL: I think... With the greatest respect, Ms Kelly, I think you
might be fantasising. The general public impression is the union is in
full retreat. They're leaning over backwards now to make no more
trouble, to assure the Warner Brothers there'll be no more union
trouble. It's a complete...
HELEN: Well, no, what we're saying, actually... No, Paul, what we're
saying ... And don't believe everything you hear in the media is a
piece of advice I'd give you... What we're saying is that we have
found a way through that will provide security for the film industry
into the future - quite a mature way through - and, as I say,
encouraged by Peter Jackson, who...
PAUL: What have you found? What's the agreement, I'm sorry?
HELEN: What we've got...
Kelly is president of the Combined Trade Unions, and John Barnett is
the managing director of South Pacific Picture - very experienced film
man. Of course, one of the most experienced film people in this
country. So Helen Kelly, we'll start with you first of all. Good
morning.
HELEN KELLY: Good morning.
PAUL: So, what we've got is the actors now in FULL RETREAT. What we've
seen after last week with your handling of things is a complete
failure for the union movement. That's so, isn't it?
HELEN: Well, no, actually, Paul, this dispute wasn't settled last
week. It was settled the week before with encouragement from Peter
Jackson, who sent several emails to me saying, 'I'm encouraging SPADA
to meet and to talk through all the issues and find a resolution.'
That's what I did. I stepped into this dispute only at the end of
September to help the parties find a way through. We've found a way
through. It's completely settled...
PAUL: I think... With the greatest respect, Ms Kelly, I think you
might be fantasising. The general public impression is the union is in
full retreat. They're leaning over backwards now to make no more
trouble, to assure the Warner Brothers there'll be no more union
trouble. It's a complete...
HELEN: Well, no, what we're saying, actually... No, Paul, what we're
saying ... And don't believe everything you hear in the media is a
piece of advice I'd give you... What we're saying is that we have
found a way through that will provide security for the film industry
into the future - quite a mature way through - and, as I say,
encouraged by Peter Jackson, who...
PAUL: What have you found? What's the agreement, I'm sorry?
HELEN: What we've got...
PAUL: What is the agreement?
HELEN: OK, well, let me tell you that.
PAUL: Why wouldn't you tell me what the agreement is instead of
preaching?
HELEN: I am just about to tell you what the agreement is. At the
moment, there's a set of guidelines in the industry that performers
are very unhappy with, because they aren't honoured, and many, many
films pick and choose from it. They don't actually fully comply. That
was part of the issue of wanting to bargain directly with producers to
get binding agreements that would be offered. What we've had from
SPADA is a proposal that they will now discuss both the content and
the form of the terms and conditions to set standards in the industry.
JOHN BARNETT: Can I just, um...
PAUL: Yeah, alright, Helen. Hang on a minute.
HELEN: It's not just the same the same for as previously, the
guidelines that may or may not be honoured. They have offered to look
at things like a process to ensure they're honoured and to make sure
that...
PAUL: Excuse, Helen, the impression I've got is that Peter Jackson
actually called you CLUELESS and told you to go home. This doesn't
sound to me like you've got any great breakthrough in agreement. You
wanted to say something, John Barnett?
JOHN: Yes, I wanted to say that for four years, SPADA have been trying
to meet with MEAA to discuss exactly what is going to be done in the
next few months.
HELEN: No, SPADA have insisted it's just the guidelines...
JOHN: Helen, you've been... Helen, with due respect...
PAUL: Helen, hang on, you've had a go! Just a moment, please.
JOHN: Helen, with due respect, you've been involved in this for a
month. I've had thirty-five years at it. I know when you got involved,
because I spoke to a senior Labour union person, and he asked me if I
would speak to you and bring you up to date. So for four years, I can
tell you, since they targeted Outrageous Fortune as an individual
production and subsequently The Cult and subsequently This is Not My
Life, the producers' organisation - SPADA - have tried to sit down
with MEAA and discuss what it is that we should do going forward. They
have refused to come to any meeting.
HELEN: If I can answer that - firstly, what SPADA have said is they
want to continue with the guidelines approach, which the actors have
said doesn't work. You yourself don't comply with the guidelines...
HELEN: OK, well, let me tell you that.
PAUL: Why wouldn't you tell me what the agreement is instead of
preaching?
HELEN: I am just about to tell you what the agreement is. At the
moment, there's a set of guidelines in the industry that performers
are very unhappy with, because they aren't honoured, and many, many
films pick and choose from it. They don't actually fully comply. That
was part of the issue of wanting to bargain directly with producers to
get binding agreements that would be offered. What we've had from
SPADA is a proposal that they will now discuss both the content and
the form of the terms and conditions to set standards in the industry.
JOHN BARNETT: Can I just, um...
PAUL: Yeah, alright, Helen. Hang on a minute.
HELEN: It's not just the same the same for as previously, the
guidelines that may or may not be honoured. They have offered to look
at things like a process to ensure they're honoured and to make sure
that...
PAUL: Excuse, Helen, the impression I've got is that Peter Jackson
actually called you CLUELESS and told you to go home. This doesn't
sound to me like you've got any great breakthrough in agreement. You
wanted to say something, John Barnett?
JOHN: Yes, I wanted to say that for four years, SPADA have been trying
to meet with MEAA to discuss exactly what is going to be done in the
next few months.
HELEN: No, SPADA have insisted it's just the guidelines...
JOHN: Helen, you've been... Helen, with due respect...
PAUL: Helen, hang on, you've had a go! Just a moment, please.
JOHN: Helen, with due respect, you've been involved in this for a
month. I've had thirty-five years at it. I know when you got involved,
because I spoke to a senior Labour union person, and he asked me if I
would speak to you and bring you up to date. So for four years, I can
tell you, since they targeted Outrageous Fortune as an individual
production and subsequently The Cult and subsequently This is Not My
Life, the producers' organisation - SPADA - have tried to sit down
with MEAA and discuss what it is that we should do going forward. They
have refused to come to any meeting.
HELEN: If I can answer that - firstly, what SPADA have said is they
want to continue with the guidelines approach, which the actors have
said doesn't work. You yourself don't comply with the guidelines...
JOHN: Please tell me where.
HELEN: In a complete sense. I've seen some of your contracts, and
there are things missing, like some of the turnaround clauses and the
overtime clauses and things like that. So there's isn't a compliance
in the industry with the Pink Book, and so what the actors want is
more certainty - perfectly legitimate for working people in this
country to seek to have agreements in which they have input, and
that's what we're seeking to do.
PAUL: Let's go back to the strategy...
JOHN: It's not true.
PAUL: Let's go back to the strategy here, because a boycott - it was
suggested, you know. This MEAA went around the world to the United
States, to the UK and tried to get actors tied into a boycott of this
particular project. Now, that strategically was a disaster, wasn't it?
Don't you accept that, Helen Kelly? It was strategically a disaster.
HELEN: No, what actually happened was that the studio issued contracts
and the international union said, 'Don't sign. We want to negotiate
those contracts.'
JOHN: That's not true.
HELEN: And wrote to the studio and said, 'We want to negotiate the
contracts. We don't want people to sign the ones that you've
unilaterally issued.' And that is actually a very legitimate thing to
do. The real point here is, Paul, that this dispute was settled a week
ago...
PAUL: No, hang on, let me just get John Barnett to answer that. Just a
moment, please. John Barnett wants to answer that.
JOHN: The studio did not issue the contracts, and also the union did
not attempt to talk to anybody about this until the last month. They
went around the world, they lined up all this opposition - which, by
the way, I understand that the British Equity have not yet withdrawn,
nor, indeed has they Australian MEAA.
PAUL: Very important. Can I just stop you right there. That's
according to an email you've received last night from Peter Jackson.
JOHN: That's right.
PAUL: The British Actors' Equity have not lifted the boycott, and
neither has the MEAA.
JOHN: MEAA has not issued a statement saying that the 'don't work'
rule has been...
PAUL How many actors in New Zealand are members of this Actors'
Equity?
HELEN: In a complete sense. I've seen some of your contracts, and
there are things missing, like some of the turnaround clauses and the
overtime clauses and things like that. So there's isn't a compliance
in the industry with the Pink Book, and so what the actors want is
more certainty - perfectly legitimate for working people in this
country to seek to have agreements in which they have input, and
that's what we're seeking to do.
PAUL: Let's go back to the strategy...
JOHN: It's not true.
PAUL: Let's go back to the strategy here, because a boycott - it was
suggested, you know. This MEAA went around the world to the United
States, to the UK and tried to get actors tied into a boycott of this
particular project. Now, that strategically was a disaster, wasn't it?
Don't you accept that, Helen Kelly? It was strategically a disaster.
HELEN: No, what actually happened was that the studio issued contracts
and the international union said, 'Don't sign. We want to negotiate
those contracts.'
JOHN: That's not true.
HELEN: And wrote to the studio and said, 'We want to negotiate the
contracts. We don't want people to sign the ones that you've
unilaterally issued.' And that is actually a very legitimate thing to
do. The real point here is, Paul, that this dispute was settled a week
ago...
PAUL: No, hang on, let me just get John Barnett to answer that. Just a
moment, please. John Barnett wants to answer that.
JOHN: The studio did not issue the contracts, and also the union did
not attempt to talk to anybody about this until the last month. They
went around the world, they lined up all this opposition - which, by
the way, I understand that the British Equity have not yet withdrawn,
nor, indeed has they Australian MEAA.
PAUL: Very important. Can I just stop you right there. That's
according to an email you've received last night from Peter Jackson.
JOHN: That's right.
PAUL: The British Actors' Equity have not lifted the boycott, and
neither has the MEAA.
JOHN: MEAA has not issued a statement saying that the 'don't work'
rule has been...
PAUL How many actors in New Zealand are members of this Actors'
Equity?
JOHN: Well, in the 2008/9 year, there were 85. In the year ended 2010,
there were apparently another 50.
PAUL: [hysterically] And this may bring the New Zealand film...
HELEN: Over six hundred.
JOHN: Helen, that is not right.
HELEN: Over six hundred.
JOHN: That is not right.
HELEN: Over 600 members of Equity.
JOHN: The numbers are released in the Australian MEAA. They didn't
release here, because they failed to return their annual registration.
They got struck off. But if you go to the MEAA Australia, you'll find
the numbers of the New Zealand members, and it isn't 600.
HELEN: Over 600, and Equity has been growing...
PAUL: Either way, Helen, what we've got is a situation where $670
million of new money coming into this country when we're on our knees
is in jeopardy because of the threat to boycott it by a small group of
Actors' Equity.
HELEN: Because workers wanted to negotiate their terms and conditions,
and, Paul, this is what happens when workers try to negotiate.
Firstly, the employers says they don't represent anybody. This happens
across New Zealand.
JOHN: That's not true, though. That's not true.
HELEN: Secondly, they say, 'We'll offshore. We'll shut down. We'll
close down if you try to bargain.' Thirdly, they say, 'You're doing
something unlawful. We can't meet you.'
PAUL: No, they do not say this necessarily. It's the way you do
things.
HELEN: And then fourthly they refuse to bargain.
PAUL: It's the way things get done, Helen.
HELEN: No, that's the way this dispute has run.
PAUL: If you come to a crowd a month before filming starting to
saying, 'We're going to boycott you,' then, of course, there's going
to be trouble.
JOHN: Can I just say that these workers, Helen, are negotiating about
contracts for $5000 a week. Each of these workers has an agent who
represents them. Each of them is able to deduct all their expenses.
Each of them operates as an individual contractor. We're not talking
about bus drivers. We're not talking about distribution workers. We're
not talking about nurses or police or teachers. We're talking about
$5,000...
HELEN: The average wage for an actor in New Zealand&
JOHN: No, no, not the average wage. We're talking about the contracts
for The Hobbit.
HELEN: Yeah, but what is that average wage?
PAUL: Can I just ask you something, John? Hang on, Helen. Just a
minute. I'll put in a word for the actors here, because, you see, the
impression we really got just a couple of weeks back or a few weeks
back is that people like Robyn Malcolm, Jennifer Ward-Lealand - these
are nice people. They don't wreck their own industry, as Robyn Malcolm
said so colourfully this morning. They simply wanted to sit down and
talk with Peter Jackson. Did that happen?
JOHN: It didn't happen because first of all the MEAA had gone around
the world, lined up the international opposition, and then targeted 3
Foot 7, the production company. SPADA had said, 'Negotiate with us.'
Jackson had said, 'Negotiate with SPADA.' And they refused to do that.
Peter said, 'I am not in a position to negotiate with you, because
under New Zealand law, we cannot enter into a collective bargaining
agreement.' The words of the international boycott that 'the producer
has to enter into a collective bargaining agreement with the Media and
Arts Alliance for production in New Zealand, providing for
satisfactory terms and conditions.'
PAUL: And we can't do it here.
JOHN: We can't do it.
PAUL: He can't do it, Helen.
HELEN: We can do it here. We can do it here, and what we wanted to do
was to get together and talk about how we could do it here. These
actors were looking for standard terms and conditions. How do you
think things like taxi companies offer every taxi driver a standard
contract? How do you think all of our franchises in New Zealand offer
standard contracts? Most of the producers offer standard contracts,
and then they're negotiated.
JOHN: But, Helen, for three years Guillermo Del Toro sat in
Wellington.
HELEN: That is simply what these actors wanted.
JOHN: This is not something that's new. This did not happen last week.
You've had three and a half years to think about this.
PAUL: Well, Helen's had a month. You've had a month. You see, I think
the impression people have, Helen, is you're well out of your depth.
When Jackson calls you clueless and tells you to go home - this is a
New Zealand-produced genius, the like of which we'll never see again,
who has produced an amazing...
HELEN: Paul, this dispute is resolved.
PAUL: ---who has brought Hollywood productions to this country.
JOHN: It's not resolved.
HELEN: He is a fantastic film director.
PAUL: What do you know about show business? What do you know about the
film industry? What do you know about international studios? What do
you know about international actors' unions?
HELEN: I got involved in this dispute, and within a week, we had a
process for settlement, and it's now fully resolved. That's what I
know.
JOHN: It's not resolved. It'll be resolved....
HELEN: Within two weeks, we had fully resolved the dispute.
JOHN: It's not resolved until the production.
HELEN: No, the industrial dispute.
PAUL: Helen, I've seen John's emails this morning from Peter Jackson
last night. He's convinced the British Actors'...
HELEN: I'll send you mine from Peter Jackson, Paul.
PAUL: British Actors Equity has not lifted...
HELEN: On the 4th of October...
PAUL: British Actors Equity has not lifted the blacklist, nor has the
MEAA. Now, that's hardly resolved.
HELEN: That's not true.
PAUL: That's hardly resolved.
HELEN: That's nor true. On the 4th of October, Peter Jackson wrote to
me and said he was going to contact SPADA and encourage them to be
very open- minded, take a meeting listening to the actors' concerns.
'Such an open discussion is long overdue, and I'm sure progress can be
made to addressing their concerns.'
JOHN: 20 days later, Helen. It's 20 days.
HELEN: On the 4th of October, I got that advice and followed it, and
by the 13th we had a settlement. Nothing in that email suggests that
was not going to resolve the dispute.
there were apparently another 50.
PAUL: [hysterically] And this may bring the New Zealand film...
HELEN: Over six hundred.
JOHN: Helen, that is not right.
HELEN: Over six hundred.
JOHN: That is not right.
HELEN: Over 600 members of Equity.
JOHN: The numbers are released in the Australian MEAA. They didn't
release here, because they failed to return their annual registration.
They got struck off. But if you go to the MEAA Australia, you'll find
the numbers of the New Zealand members, and it isn't 600.
HELEN: Over 600, and Equity has been growing...
PAUL: Either way, Helen, what we've got is a situation where $670
million of new money coming into this country when we're on our knees
is in jeopardy because of the threat to boycott it by a small group of
Actors' Equity.
HELEN: Because workers wanted to negotiate their terms and conditions,
and, Paul, this is what happens when workers try to negotiate.
Firstly, the employers says they don't represent anybody. This happens
across New Zealand.
JOHN: That's not true, though. That's not true.
HELEN: Secondly, they say, 'We'll offshore. We'll shut down. We'll
close down if you try to bargain.' Thirdly, they say, 'You're doing
something unlawful. We can't meet you.'
PAUL: No, they do not say this necessarily. It's the way you do
things.
HELEN: And then fourthly they refuse to bargain.
PAUL: It's the way things get done, Helen.
HELEN: No, that's the way this dispute has run.
PAUL: If you come to a crowd a month before filming starting to
saying, 'We're going to boycott you,' then, of course, there's going
to be trouble.
JOHN: Can I just say that these workers, Helen, are negotiating about
contracts for $5000 a week. Each of these workers has an agent who
represents them. Each of them is able to deduct all their expenses.
Each of them operates as an individual contractor. We're not talking
about bus drivers. We're not talking about distribution workers. We're
not talking about nurses or police or teachers. We're talking about
$5,000...
HELEN: The average wage for an actor in New Zealand&
JOHN: No, no, not the average wage. We're talking about the contracts
for The Hobbit.
HELEN: Yeah, but what is that average wage?
PAUL: Can I just ask you something, John? Hang on, Helen. Just a
minute. I'll put in a word for the actors here, because, you see, the
impression we really got just a couple of weeks back or a few weeks
back is that people like Robyn Malcolm, Jennifer Ward-Lealand - these
are nice people. They don't wreck their own industry, as Robyn Malcolm
said so colourfully this morning. They simply wanted to sit down and
talk with Peter Jackson. Did that happen?
JOHN: It didn't happen because first of all the MEAA had gone around
the world, lined up the international opposition, and then targeted 3
Foot 7, the production company. SPADA had said, 'Negotiate with us.'
Jackson had said, 'Negotiate with SPADA.' And they refused to do that.
Peter said, 'I am not in a position to negotiate with you, because
under New Zealand law, we cannot enter into a collective bargaining
agreement.' The words of the international boycott that 'the producer
has to enter into a collective bargaining agreement with the Media and
Arts Alliance for production in New Zealand, providing for
satisfactory terms and conditions.'
PAUL: And we can't do it here.
JOHN: We can't do it.
PAUL: He can't do it, Helen.
HELEN: We can do it here. We can do it here, and what we wanted to do
was to get together and talk about how we could do it here. These
actors were looking for standard terms and conditions. How do you
think things like taxi companies offer every taxi driver a standard
contract? How do you think all of our franchises in New Zealand offer
standard contracts? Most of the producers offer standard contracts,
and then they're negotiated.
JOHN: But, Helen, for three years Guillermo Del Toro sat in
Wellington.
HELEN: That is simply what these actors wanted.
JOHN: This is not something that's new. This did not happen last week.
You've had three and a half years to think about this.
PAUL: Well, Helen's had a month. You've had a month. You see, I think
the impression people have, Helen, is you're well out of your depth.
When Jackson calls you clueless and tells you to go home - this is a
New Zealand-produced genius, the like of which we'll never see again,
who has produced an amazing...
HELEN: Paul, this dispute is resolved.
PAUL: ---who has brought Hollywood productions to this country.
JOHN: It's not resolved.
HELEN: He is a fantastic film director.
PAUL: What do you know about show business? What do you know about the
film industry? What do you know about international studios? What do
you know about international actors' unions?
HELEN: I got involved in this dispute, and within a week, we had a
process for settlement, and it's now fully resolved. That's what I
know.
JOHN: It's not resolved. It'll be resolved....
HELEN: Within two weeks, we had fully resolved the dispute.
JOHN: It's not resolved until the production.
HELEN: No, the industrial dispute.
PAUL: Helen, I've seen John's emails this morning from Peter Jackson
last night. He's convinced the British Actors'...
HELEN: I'll send you mine from Peter Jackson, Paul.
PAUL: British Actors Equity has not lifted...
HELEN: On the 4th of October...
PAUL: British Actors Equity has not lifted the blacklist, nor has the
MEAA. Now, that's hardly resolved.
HELEN: That's not true.
PAUL: That's hardly resolved.
HELEN: That's nor true. On the 4th of October, Peter Jackson wrote to
me and said he was going to contact SPADA and encourage them to be
very open- minded, take a meeting listening to the actors' concerns.
'Such an open discussion is long overdue, and I'm sure progress can be
made to addressing their concerns.'
JOHN: 20 days later, Helen. It's 20 days.
HELEN: On the 4th of October, I got that advice and followed it, and
by the 13th we had a settlement. Nothing in that email suggests that
was not going to resolve the dispute.
PAUL: There has been no impression...
HELEN: I got that email from Peter Jackson...
PAUL: There has been no impression garnered by anybody this week that
this thing is settled. In fact, Warner Brothers are flying out, and by
Monday or Tuesday we might have lost the whole damn $670 million and
the New Zealand film industry.
HELEN: Well, it's interesting that the release from Jackson about
Warner Brothers coming out to discuss shifting the moving - if you'd
heard the interview with Fran Walsh on Kathryn Ryan, she actually
agreed that that wasn't what Warner Brothers had said they were coming
out to do. I hope the movie stays here, but that doesn't mean that
working people shouldn't be able to negotiate their terms and
conditions.
PAUL: Can I suggest to you, Helen, that most New Zealanders this week
are DISGUSTED by Actors' Equity this week and by the union movement
this week, and they feel they actors have damaged the country?
HELEN: Well, sometimes unions do things that are not popular, but what
we did here was very legitimate...
JOHN: Can I say something here, Helen?
HELEN: ...and could have been headed off...
JOHN: I think that you've...
PAUL: Hang on, John. Yeah, Helen.
HELEN: It could have been headed off simply by respecting a union's
request to negotiate. That's the crux of this. I don't know why on
Wednesday those technicians marched and raised this thing all up
again, when Jackson knew that we had a settlement encouraged by him.
And I feel very let down...
PAUL: No, but that is a very important thing. When a gentle man, when
a gentle giant of a man like Sir Richard Taylor and his people go into
the street, you've got something happening that's very unpleasant.
Final word to you.
JOHN: Yeah, can I say, Helen, that I think that you've really let down
the actors. It is not fair at all for Robyn Malcolm and Jennifer Ward-
Lealand to be in the front line of this. They both have very strong
opinions about it. They're both entitled to do it. They should not be
the people who are having to have this fight with the unions and the
production, and what it is is a reflection of the ineptitude of the
MEAA. You can't put Simon Whipp up - he's clearly Australian. You
can't put Frances Walsh up - she's just of no account whatsoever. And
you have no credibility in this role, so what you do is you put up two
actors, both of whom are damaged goods, and that's really not fair to
them. They're both terrific people. And, you know what?
HELEN: Actually, my involvement...
JOHN: They will find it hard to get work, not because people won't
employ them, but because the public has a completely different
perception.
PAUL: Now, Helen, I've got to wrap this up, but where are we at with
The Hobbit at the moment? Do you know?
JOHN: Well, all that I know is that Warners are coming and a decision
will be made then. I don't know that it's confirmed that it will take
place.
PAUL: What was the tone of Sir Peter's email to you last night? Was he
optimistic? Is he...?
JOHN: Fearful.
PAUL: Fearful?
JOHN: Yeah.
PAUL: Great stuff. Helen Kelly, thank you very much, and John Barnett,
thank you very much for coming in.
HELEN: I got that email from Peter Jackson...
PAUL: There has been no impression garnered by anybody this week that
this thing is settled. In fact, Warner Brothers are flying out, and by
Monday or Tuesday we might have lost the whole damn $670 million and
the New Zealand film industry.
HELEN: Well, it's interesting that the release from Jackson about
Warner Brothers coming out to discuss shifting the moving - if you'd
heard the interview with Fran Walsh on Kathryn Ryan, she actually
agreed that that wasn't what Warner Brothers had said they were coming
out to do. I hope the movie stays here, but that doesn't mean that
working people shouldn't be able to negotiate their terms and
conditions.
PAUL: Can I suggest to you, Helen, that most New Zealanders this week
are DISGUSTED by Actors' Equity this week and by the union movement
this week, and they feel they actors have damaged the country?
HELEN: Well, sometimes unions do things that are not popular, but what
we did here was very legitimate...
JOHN: Can I say something here, Helen?
HELEN: ...and could have been headed off...
JOHN: I think that you've...
PAUL: Hang on, John. Yeah, Helen.
HELEN: It could have been headed off simply by respecting a union's
request to negotiate. That's the crux of this. I don't know why on
Wednesday those technicians marched and raised this thing all up
again, when Jackson knew that we had a settlement encouraged by him.
And I feel very let down...
PAUL: No, but that is a very important thing. When a gentle man, when
a gentle giant of a man like Sir Richard Taylor and his people go into
the street, you've got something happening that's very unpleasant.
Final word to you.
JOHN: Yeah, can I say, Helen, that I think that you've really let down
the actors. It is not fair at all for Robyn Malcolm and Jennifer Ward-
Lealand to be in the front line of this. They both have very strong
opinions about it. They're both entitled to do it. They should not be
the people who are having to have this fight with the unions and the
production, and what it is is a reflection of the ineptitude of the
MEAA. You can't put Simon Whipp up - he's clearly Australian. You
can't put Frances Walsh up - she's just of no account whatsoever. And
you have no credibility in this role, so what you do is you put up two
actors, both of whom are damaged goods, and that's really not fair to
them. They're both terrific people. And, you know what?
HELEN: Actually, my involvement...
JOHN: They will find it hard to get work, not because people won't
employ them, but because the public has a completely different
perception.
PAUL: Now, Helen, I've got to wrap this up, but where are we at with
The Hobbit at the moment? Do you know?
JOHN: Well, all that I know is that Warners are coming and a decision
will be made then. I don't know that it's confirmed that it will take
place.
PAUL: What was the tone of Sir Peter's email to you last night? Was he
optimistic? Is he...?
JOHN: Fearful.
PAUL: Fearful?
JOHN: Yeah.
PAUL: Great stuff. Helen Kelly, thank you very much, and John Barnett,
thank you very much for coming in.
Copyright © 2010, Television New Zealand Limited
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On 25/10/10 9:24 PM, Radio Transcripts Ltd wrote:
> Preliminary comment by JACK A. NAPES, for Daisycutter Sports Inc. ....
> This is billed as an "interview", but it's more of an attempted
> mugging. Unfortunately for Barnett and Holmes, Kelly is not
> intimidated by their antics. She remains polite and perfectly composed
> throughout, unlike her two opponents. Holmes interrupts Helen Kelly
> nearly every time she speaks, and Barnett interrupts her three times.
> But all this fails to upset her; she's an experienced union
> negotiator, and these two are lightweights compared to some business
> and union leaders she meets routinely. Barnett gets really angry when
> Kelly points out that he's a slack employer: "You yourself don't
> comply with the guidelines." Holmes calls her "clueless" twice and he
> swears angrily on two occasions. Note the way that Holmes won't let
> her speak even at the end, shouting: "No, Helen's had ENOUGH!"
>
> Preliminary comment by JACK A. NAPES, for Daisycutter Sports Inc. ....
> This is billed as an "interview", but it's more of an attempted
> mugging. Unfortunately for Barnett and Holmes, Kelly is not
> intimidated by their antics. She remains polite and perfectly composed
> throughout, unlike her two opponents. Holmes interrupts Helen Kelly
> nearly every time she speaks, and Barnett interrupts her three times.
> But all this fails to upset her; she's an experienced union
> negotiator, and these two are lightweights compared to some business
> and union leaders she meets routinely. Barnett gets really angry when
> Kelly points out that he's a slack employer: "You yourself don't
> comply with the guidelines." Holmes calls her "clueless" twice and he
> swears angrily on two occasions. Note the way that Holmes won't let
> her speak even at the end, shouting: "No, Helen's had ENOUGH!"
>
Yes, terrible interview by Holmes. Helen is a very intelligent and well
spoken woman and handled those two idiots very well.
spoken woman and handled those two idiots very well.
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Cosmik de Bris wrote:
- show quoted text -
The neo-liberal party line got in the way of journalism, so true
to type TVNZ journalists dumped the journalism quick smart.
to type TVNZ journalists dumped the journalism quick smart.
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