Sunday, 5 April 2020

weka: "no evidence" of Labour Party purge in Britain (Apr. 5, 2020)

  1. Morrissey6
    Ruined party elects block of wood as "leader"
    Tony Blair sans the charisma.
    • observer6.1
      I'll take the views of UK Labour people who work with Starmer every day over your sideline cynicism, thanks.
      • Morrissey6.1.1
        He's vowed to expel every Labour Party member who cares about human rights. You don't know much, or anything, about the UK Labour Party.
        • weka6.1.1.1
          "He's vowed to expel every Labour Party member who cares about human rights"
          Citation please (so we know what you are talking about).
          • TootingPopularFront6.
            I think Morrissey is referring to the article he posted, Starmer intends to address anti-semitism in the party (which doesn't really exist, but was an invention of many "friends of Israel" and some other hidden forces), this will be a direct attack on all socialists in the party who support Palestinian's human rights.
            • Morrissey6.
              It's an attack not just on "socialists" but on all people who dare to speak out for the victims of injustice.
          • Morrissey6.
            From the article I provided with my link:
            Starmer has previously said he would take action to eliminate prejudice against Jews in his party “on day one” in order to demonstrate “the difference that new leadership will make on the issue.”
            He has also said he would look to fully cooperate with the Equalities and Human Rights Commission’s report into anti-Semitism in the party, which is currently in the works, but that he had no intention of waiting for its results in order to take action.
            Starmer deliberately mislabels opposition to the crimes of the Israeli regime as "anti-Semitism." That obviously sits well with the extreme right Times of Israel, which published this encomium, but it's another nail in the coffin for the future of the Labour Party. 

            • weka6.
              So he hasn't "vowed to expel every Labour Party member who cares about human rights" then and you just made that up?
              What caught my attention about that was that the other leader candidates signed a pledge to support the expulsion of gender critical feminists from the party. From memory Starmer didn't, or at least he was restrained in his handling of that rather than throwing a large number of Labour feminists under the bus.
              So making shit up about expulsions carries more stupid weight than normal.
              • Morrissey
                He joined in the campaign of defamation against Jeremy Corbyn, which descended into a purge of anyone who spoke out against Israeli crimes. I didn't make that up, it's an unpleasant fact.
                Do you support the contention of the Blairite rump of that party that criticism of Israel is, per se, anti-Semitism?
                'The so-called “friends of Israel”, who support Israel automatically and blindly: this has nothing to do with friendship. They are enemies of Israel—they corrupt us. The Jewish establishment in Australia kept saying to me: “Israel right or wrong.” Well, Israel is wrong and they need to stop supporting it. Continuous support by Western governments and by the Jewish establishment is anything BUT friendship.'
                Gideon Levy, speaking in Auckland, 3 Dec. 2017 
                • weka
                  which descended into a purge of anyone who spoke out against Israeli crimes
                  Citation needed, because it looks like you are making shit up again.
                  • Morrissey
                    What it looks like is that you are back in your routine of feigned ignorance. I doubt that you are unaware of the brutal campaign of "anti-Semitism" allegations that was directed against Corbyn over the last four years. So why pretend you are?
                    • weka
                      I'm asking for evidence that the Labour party has purged members or intends to. You've made the claim twice, and both times refused to back it up, so I assume now you are lying.
                      In terms of your politics around Israel and Palestine and what Labour are doing re that, not interested in talking about that today.
                    • Morrissey
                      I'm asking for evidence that the Labour party has purged members or intends to.
                      If you don't know that the Labour Party is purging human rights activists, you should not be commenting here. I expect to find displays of willful ignorance on Kiwiblog, but not on this normally excellent forum.
                      In terms of your politics around Israel and Palestine and what Labour are doing re that, not interested in talking about that today.
                      The false anti-Semitism smear and the witchhunt and the demand for apologies has everything to do with the "politics around Israel-Palestine." I don't believe, by the way, that you are ignorant about this matter.
                    • Incognito[]
                      Morrissey, you run your own blog, IIRC. You should know that many blogs, particularly TS, are not for little tête-à-têtes but for robust debate. Anybody can join in but many read this site without ever commenting. So, when somebody, particularly a Moderator, asks you for evidence to back up your allegations, then please oblige without sounding like a petulant little child. Thanks.
                    • weka
                      A purging that everyone knows about but for which there is no evidence. Right.

                    • Morrissey
                      I'm not "alleging" that the right wing (Blairite) rump of the Labour Party, which has now manoeuvred itself back into control—a pyrrhic victory if ever there was one—has operated an unrelenting smear campaign against Corbyn and anyone who stands up for the rights of the Palestinians, any more than I would allege that the sun is coming up tomorrow morning or that today is Sunday. It's a fact.
                      You say there is "no evidence" of a purge of human rights activists from the Labour Party. This charming little encapsulation of Starmer's agenda comes from the article I provided for you in my original comment on this thread:
                      New opposition chief immediately apologizes to Jews for anti-Semitism in ranks, vows to ‘tear out this poison’….
                      When Starmer says "this poison" he doesn't mean anti-Semitism, he means criticism of the Israeli regime.  What do you think he means when he says he's going to "tear out" these critics?

                    • Incognito[]
                      Morrissey, you could have saved yourself the trouble with those utterances that I personally am not interested in.
                      My concern is your behaviour here and how you respond, or not for that matter, to basic requests for evidence to support your allegations. This is a necessary element of good debate, which we treasure on this site.
                      You have been around here long enough to know how it works. Next time, please just provide the evidence and don’t argue. It is wasting our time and I find it tedious enough to get the ban-hammer out.
                      Over and out.
    • Gabby6.2
      Well look where charisma gets us.
    • Incognito7.2
      What is your point, Pete? Are you playing ‘trick or treat’ with us here on TS?
      • I thought it was kinda obvious. Robertson said that Clark was "always available" for interviews according to Jason Walls. 
        Also Stuff reported Robertson as saying “He’s available to front anytime".
        But Jack Tame pointed out he reneged on a scheduled Q+A interview for today so wasn't always available as stated. RNZ Live referred to it as "a no show'.
        Also from RNZ Live:
        Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern was grilled by journalists as to why Health Minister David Clark has declined some interviews this weekend. She said others had fronted, he was at home at lockdown and he would continue to be available for interviews.
        Dr Clark refused Newshub's repeated requests for an interview, instead sending a short statement.
        So according to Robertson and Ardern, Clark is "available to front any time" and "would continue to be available for interviews", but according to journalists he isn't. 
        The Minister of Health, during the biggest health crisis for decades, is remote from the centre of Government and Ministry of Health activity and is not giving interviews despite the Prime Minister and Minister of Finance saying he is available (knowing he isn't doing interviews).
        Something is obviously not right here.
        • Psycho Milt7.2.1.1
          If he's not giving interviews to gossip columnists who want to rabbit on about him going for a bike ride, then good so.  Why should someone in his position indulge such childish bullshit?  If they were actually interested in asking him questions about the pandemic and NZ's response to it, it would be dereliction of duty for him to refuse the interviews – but they aren't, and it isn't. 
          • Pete George7.
            Q+A is hardly a gossip column, it's not perfect but it's one of the best political media forums we have.
            With Clark not fronting up Simon Bridges got a spot, and surprisingly he came across well, far different from his usual. Generally supportive of Government actions but with some reasonable questions and criticisms.
            So at least something good came of Clark's no show. Bridges may be capable of rising to the occasion that the current situation requires of our politicians.
            ” it would be dereliction of duty for him to refuse the interviews – but they aren’t”
            Do you have proof of this? I heard O’Brien saying she had specific and relevant (to the pandemic) sounding questions.
            • weka7.
              You mean Tova Woodward?
              Good move by Clark imo, let's see how much media work he does in the coming week. Journos want to sensationalise a story that should have been over by now. Under normal circumstances that would just be tedious, but under these circumstances it's bizarre.
            • Psycho Milt7.
              PM's press conference today: the first there-were-so-many-I-can't-recall-how-many questions were all about David Clark going for a bike ride.  Nothing about Tova O'Brien's previous reporting suggests she'd operate to a higher standard than that, in fact for all I know it was her asking those questions (the questioners aren't identified in the video).
        • weka7.2.1.2
          "and is not giving interviews"
          When was the last time Clark gave an interview then?
        • Incognito7.2.1.3
          What is obvious is that your mind is not like mine, obviously.
          Being available for interviews is not the same as being available for a game of pin the tail on the donkey, no matter how much it appeals to a certain audience and certain pundits who have made a hobby out of reporting on it.
          When something smells a little off, it could be a ripening French cheese. Yum!
          • Pete George7.
            So how long do you think that Clark should refuse to do interviews (despite Ardern and Robertson saying he is always available) just in case someone asks him an awkward question that he would prefer not to answer?
            Or do you think he should only do interviews with questions he allows in advance?
            Or should Bloomfield, Robertson and Ardern just speak on his behalf. It's not as if he has a very important job, is it.
            • Incognito7.
              I thought it was kinda obvious. During Alert Level 4, he should only do interviews on how to repair punctures when mountain biking in the wild.
        • Pete George7.2.1.4
          I think this tweet speaks for itself, adding to this thread.
        • Macro7.2.1.5
          Yap! Yap! Yap!
          Please Pete – Give it a bone.
          There are way more important issues than someone going on a bike ride, even if they are the Minister of Health.
          • Pete George7.
            I never thought the bike ride was a big deal apart from being embarrassing for Ardern efforts to get people following her message of staying away from risky pastimes.
            But what it has highlighted is a Minister of Health being shielded or hiding away at the most important time for any Minister of Health for decades. That's an important issue. Do we have a functional Minister of Health?

            • Incognito7.
              What’s more important: de we have a scandal that can bring down this Government? Will the PM call a snap election? What do the polls say? What’s for dinner tonight?

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