Lanthanide1.1
“Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”It’s difficult to tell since you’ve left off the context, but I suspect what Key is saying here is the ‘public we’ as in “we, the public, hold MPs to a higher standard, so Aaron’s behaviour takes on a bit more weight than it might otherwise”.If that indeed is what Key was saying, then I don’t think you can call him a liar.Morrissey1.1.1
This morning’s “Liars of Our Time” entry brought forth the usual hostile response from our good friend Lanthanide…It’s difficult to tell since you’ve left off the context,No I have not “left off the context.” Read my post again.but I suspect what Key is saying here is the ‘public we’ as in “we, the public, hold MPs to a higher standard, so Aaron’s behaviour takes on a bit more weight than it might otherwise”.You’re spinning for John Key. I must say, sadly, that I am not at all surprised to see this. After all, you’ve spun for the Japanese government, a discredited bunch of reprobates which makes John Key look like Honest John the Most Honest Hombre in Honiara.If that indeed is what Key was saying, then I don’t think you can call him a liar.But then again, you did not think that the Japanese government was lying when it was issuing false statements to the public following the tsunami and nuclear meltdown in March 2011. I’m sure you also chose to believe that halfwit Rob Fyfe, when he went on television to assure New Zealanders that it was perfectly safe to go to Tokyo.Te Reo Putake1.1.1.1
Lanth is correct to say that you left out the context and you are incorrect to see that as spinning for Key.You’ve cherry picked one line (“Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”) without any way of identifying who ‘we’ is. Lanth may be correct that ‘we’ refers to the public. Or ‘we’ may mean the National Party in general or the caucus specifically. Without the context, who knows?You heard the report, Moz, can you add some more detail as to who ‘we’ is?- Lanth is correct to say that you left out the context and you are incorrect to see that as spinning for Key.I did not leave out the context. Key said that on radio, not long after saying on television that the thuggish List lout was “a bright guy with ability.” Key was quite prepared to throw Gilmore to the wolves, by the way: he said that Gilmore was the lowest on the list in parliament, and that he had not distinguished himself in any way from 2008 to 2011. Whoever Key was concerned about defending, it was not Aaron Gilmore.You’ve cherry picked one line (“Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”) without any way of identifying who ‘we’ is.I did not “cherry pick” his words, I quoted them directly. Sure, I did not include the usual Key mumbling and any of the hedging ums and ahs, but that is what he said.Lanth may be correct that ‘we’ refers to the public. Or ‘we’ may mean the National Party in general or the caucus specifically. Without the context, who knows?Whether Key was referring to the public or the National Party caucus does not really matter; the fact is we (all of us, the general public and politicians) do NOT hold politicians to a higher standard, or to any standard at all. If we did, John Key, a notorious liar, would not have survived the publication of Nicky Hager’s damning exposé of his close involvement in the Brethren payments, and even if he had, he would have been drummed out of office for repeatedly misleading parliament.You heard the report, Moz, can you add some more detail as to who ‘we’ is?See above.
- “Whether Key was referring to the public or the National Party caucus does not really matter;”Er, yes it does. It defines the context in which he made his comment. Lanth was 100% correct and we are none the wiser for you having written the comment in the first place.Still, as you yourself admit in this remarkable quote I have just transcribed off the internet:“I, Morrissey, must say I am NOT a bright guy with any ability at all. I have spun for the Japanese government, John Key and wolves. I was lying when issuing false statements to the public, I have not distinguished the Brethren in any way. I remain a notorious liar”.
- You’re better than that, Te Reo. That was as funny as an anti-gay joke at a Family Fist rally.
- Your example’s a bit tortured, Moz. An anti-gay joke at a Family Fist rally would surely be regarded as funny as a fit. Context, eh? You really seem to be struggling with it today.
- Ouch! You got me there, my friend.By the way, this one always gets a belly laugh with the kiddy-whacking crowd:* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *That joke has this effect on Bob McCoskrie and friends….
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_573/1294779444s58lH5.jpg cardassian…
What’s this Family Fist you guys keep talking about? Used to live near a fisting club but pretty sure it wasn’t for families.
Populuxe11.1.1.1.2
Nor indeed is there any inconsistancy between the two statements.
“Underneath it all he’s a bright guy with ability, BUT, yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard”North1.1.1.1.2.1
Don’t know what it is about Morrissey that draws energy so, but here’s why I cannot but support him at 1 above:From ShonKey Python – “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”From TV3 tonight – Slurrin’ (Entitled Bully) Erron has apologised to the PM by text message…….his job is safe.Morrissey is pissed off and I don’t blame him one bit. We, the public “we”, we hold MPs to a higher standard.Do “we” really ?Well ShonKey Python’s obviously not part of the “we”. He talks the talk of “higher standard”. He does not walk the walk of “higher standard”. That makes him a liar in my book.A double liar given that the obfuscating weasel words are singularly directed to protecting ShonKey Python’s precarious grip on power. There’s absolutely nothing there about observing or enforcing the higher standard he claims to embrace. Nothing !Go Morrissey ! The Beltway Phenomenon rears its sneering head again. It’s not the first time and it won’t be the last. Next time though you’d better address “context” in atrophyingly minute detail my man.Given its profound appreciation of all and everything The Beltway was entitled to get your patently obvious point without that. It did not. You’ll accommodate next time OK ?- Beautifully said, my friend. As our colleague Te Reo Putake would say, you’ve nailed it.
- “But then again, you did not think that the Japanese government was lying when it was issuing false statements to the public following the tsunami and nuclear meltdown in March 2011. I’m sure you also chose to believe that halfwit Rob Fyfe, when he went on television to assure New Zealanders that it was perfectly safe to go to Tokyo.”Still upset about that, are we?Find some evidence that the people who visited Tokyo on those flights have suffered in any way at all. Or, even easier for you, find some evidence that people living in Tokyo have suffered in any way that can be statistically attributed to the nuclear meltdown that occurred at Fukushima.Once you have some evidence, you might have some standing on this argument.
Rogue Trooper1.1.1.2.1
probably safer than being a patient at CHCH hospital while contractors track white asbestos everywhere (notified employers, yet ignored for some time).- “But then again, you did not think that the Japanese government was lying when it was issuing false statements to the public following the tsunami and nuclear meltdown in March 2011. I’m sure you also chose to believe that halfwit Rob Fyfe, when he went on television to assure New Zealanders that it was perfectly safe to go to Tokyo.”Still upset about that, are we?Indeed we are, but we are not one-tenth as upset as the people of Japan were, and are, at the officials who willfully and cynically deceived them.Find some evidence that the people who visited Tokyo on those flights have suffered in any way at all.I think the documented fact that the Japanese government seriously considered evacuating Tokyo is evidence that Rob Fyfe is not only a damned fool, but an irresponsible and dangerous fool who in any sane and decent society would be shunned like a sheep molester.Or, even easier for you, find some evidence that people living in Tokyo have suffered in any way that can be statistically attributed to the nuclear meltdown that occurred at Fukushima.Oh, I see what you are driving at! It was a benign and healthful nuclear disaster. Oddly, the scientific community and the government of Japan were not as relaxed and confident about the catastrophe as you pretend to be from the other end of the earth.Once you have some evidence, you might have some standing on this argument.“This argument”? There is no argument. The Japanese government deceived the general public by issuing statements that said the diametric opposite of what the situation actually was. That has been irrefutably proven, and scores of Japanese officials have made the standard cringing Gomen nasais, although, sadly, not one of them has taken the traditional route of committing hara-kiri. You either know that, and are therefore a liar and a scoundrel of Clintonian dimensions, or you are a bewildered soul who should be given her own show on NewstalkZB immediately.
- Provide just one credible source, just one, that Tokyo was ever dangerous to visit due to the Fukushima meltdown. Just one.
- Provide just one credible source, just one, that Tokyo was ever dangerous to visit due to the Fukushima meltdown. Just one.How about the leaked internal documents that reveal the government almost called for Tokyo to be evacuated? Tokyo, indeed the whole of the north-east of Japan, was in peril of an almost unimaginable order. The government advisers admit all that in their internal communications, when they are actually honest.Or are you going to try to deny THAT, too?
- That’s not actually an answer. The operative word in your comment being “nearly”. I ‘nearly’ had fish for dinner, but then I decided I prefered chicken instead. I ‘nearly’ missed the bus, but fortunately I didn’t. Or of greater relevance, “X’s grandfather was nearly hit by a mortar in WW2, but wasn’t, and hence X is can do whatever within the law X likes.
Arfamo…
Technically I think the word at issue is “almost”, not “nearly” – though I agree with the conclusion.
Professor Longhair…
“That’s not actually an answer.”Yes, it is, actually. You have been elegantly and thoroughly refuted.Your lame and foolish attempt at syllogism warfare is beneath contempt.- You clearly do not understand what a syllogism is, Boolean or Aristotlean, as that is not what I was trying to do. If there is a particle of sanity in your addled bonce, it may detect that “is”, and “almost” and “nearly” are not the same things and I was drawing attention to the weasel ambiguity of its use. One cannot form a testable proof with “almost” or “nearly”.
- So no evidence then. Just prevaricating bluster.
- The only prevarication and bluster around here, as always, is from you, my friend. I would have named poor old “farmboy” as well, but he’s busy with a farm animal.
- No, not really. I pointed out that without the context of your quote, what Key could have said on his RNZ interview could in fact have been quite valid. As usual Key is bad at grammar and speaking english in general, but it is usually possible to decipher the gist of what he’s trying to say, if you give the whole context of the discussion.Instead of admitting that maybe I was right, you attacked me and brought up very old arguments for which you have no evidence to back up your assertions. It is you who is avoiding the argument with bluster, not me.
Murray Olsen1.1.2
Are you suggesting that Key was being truthful when he said “Underneath it all he’s a bright guy with ability.”?- I wouldn’t suggest Dunnokeyo was ever truthful, Murray. I think Key lies as a form of self adulation; I lie, they believe me, I am like a God to them.
- I don’t think you have quite got it right there, Te Reo. I think Key lies for the same reasons anybody lies: he simply can’t afford to tell the truth. Like that rotten liar Bill Clinton, he will continue to lie even when he knows we know he is lying.Maybe, as you say, there is an element of ego involved in it; no doubt he is continually astonished that he has gotten away with it, but that will only increase his contempt for the poor saps who can’t or won’t see him for what he is.
- Yep, your last para nails it. He’s probably felt contempt for others pretty much forever, but the blind acceptance of his lies as a politician would be some sort of justification in his mind for his misanthrope.btw, my media contribution for the day is this spell check free headline currently running on Stuff:PM sign off enables spys
- PM sign off enables spysOminously it looks like the PM is enabling Winston Peters.Peters helping out Key.Key helping out Peters.Who makes who look worse?
- Those are their principles. If you don’t like them they have others for sale in different markets.
- Whoops! I guess I shouldn’t complain about Stuff ups while making one myself.Misanthropy, not misanthrope.
felix…
Muphrey strikes again.- The Misanthrope was a pretty good play. By Moller, I believe.
- I see what you did there, Moz!If I can be equally playful, even farcical, I think my next visit to the stalls may be to see this sixties classic:http://events.nzherald.co.nz/2013/loot/wanganui
Clockie…
Lorraine Moller?- No, she’s the new Attorney General. Sonny Bill wasn’t available.
McFlock…
Isn’t sonny replacing peter gluckman?
And buck shelford’s going to take over from sian elias.
- Perchance you mean Molière?
- I’m sure you’re the only person who’s aware of Moliere Pop. Have a preen.
- Hmmm – methinks lying about getting a blow job isn’t really on the same spectrum as lying about a country having WMD as a pretext for an invasion. Or are you just a dessicated prude and that was the only example that came to mind?
- Hmmm – methinks lying about getting a blow job isn’t really on the same spectrum as lying about a country having WMD as a pretext for an invasion. Or are you just a dessicated prude and that was the only example that came to mind?You hapless fool, I was not even thinking about the blowjobs. (Although I am now, damn you.)Clinton’s lies were far more cynical and murderous than that. You really need to do a bit of reading, my friend.
- Worse than Nixon and Bush Jr?
- Better be, what with Morrissey saying how Clinton was the worst liar ever, which he never said.Better be worse than Pinocchio too.
- Aw, look who’s worked out emoticons. How sweet. I was merely questioning the validity of comparing Key to Clinton when far more damaging and loathesome US Presidents so easily avail themselves. You may stick your head back up your jaxie now.
- Really Pop?Cos it looked like you lunged in anger to grasp the wrong end of the stick, and clutching it tightly proceeded to wave it wildly at no-one in particular for no reason at all. As usual.You’re the only commenter I know of here who only ever argues against strawmen and still manages to lose every time.It’s like a sickness with you, Pop. You need help. Seriously.
Monday 17 December 2018
LIARS OF OUR TIME No. 3: John Key (May 6, 2013)
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No. 3: John Key
“Underneath it all he’s a bright guy with ability.”
“Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”
No. 2: Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.” (TV3 News, 24 April 2013)http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-25042013/#comment-624381
No. 1: Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19042013/#comment-621738