It has been brought to our attention that one “You_Fool” has written: “if Bob Jones is an example of a knight, then there is something wrong with the knighthoods.”
We would like to point out that the rogue Bob Jones is an aberration, an abomination, an irritant, a boor, a bully,a misogynist, a racist, and a cad. An asshole, if one were to employ the vernacular. The rest of New Zealand’s, and indeed the Empire’s, knights, however, are men of the highest character. As one of our esteemed number said of himself some years ago, we are GOOD MEN.
So let’s condemn Bob Jones by all means, but let us also praise good men and true, like the following exemplars of moral courage and intellectual excellence…..
Sir Paul Holmes Sir Thomas Eichelbaum Sir James Savile Dame Denise L’Estrange-Corbet Sir Peter Leitch Sir Jeremiah Mateparae Sir John Key Sir Clive Woodward
Go back and read the second part of the piece again, I’ll wait.
Now when you’re done, you’ll note that my position wasn’t about what the law says now, although I did explain that a bit. It’s about the fact that the law is broken when people like Bob Jones or Colin Craig can bring these frivolous suits without knowing that they’ll be easily dismissed, and I want us to look at changing it, perhaps somewhat more towards the American model where it’s more difficult to sue people for defamation.
As to the burden of proof- yes and no. The problem is the only defense we have for defamation once your words are established is one that puts all the burden on the defendant. That system means that people like Jones can bully people with suits. Having a defense that your comments were reasonable critique would make this case a slam-dunk if it’s brought to court, because the nature of her whole petition, in which the comments were made, was criticism of Bob’s conduct.
Your position is still that the person being defamed has to prove the defamation, when it really should be seen as the person making the comments having to prove their comments are correct. It should be the person first making the statement that needs to back it up.
It boils down to:
1: You are a fat stinky liar 2: Are not! 1: Are too! 2: Prove it!
There should be no burden on #2 to prove that #1 said anything, #1 is the one making the statements that need to be backed up.
I am not saying that Bob Jone’s case is not frivolous and the fact he can just march around pretending he is in the US and say he will sue everyone is not wrong. Even more so with the fact that he would be laughed out of court in the US with what he does, but that doesn’t mean that the burden of proof has to change, just that there needs to be a way of showing what slander is; calling for Bob to lose the Sir after he makes “a joke” is not slander… You do go over bits of that in your article, and I agree broadly with you, just not with changing the burden of proof.
Yes, the way it works under the law is that when you claim there has been a crime you are asked to prove that there has been a crime.
Right now, all you have to prove is that someone said something you don’t like, and that you can prove it’s wrong, the burden isn’t on you to prove malice or neglect on the defendant’s part, which is very hard to justify given the effect it has in terms of who brings cases based on that- it doesn’t seem to have lead to a better behaved media, it hasn’t lead to a “politer” society, whatever that means, it’s just resulted in people being bullied with frivolous lawsuits.
If you look into the law, you will note the burden of proof is already on the plaintiff to establish that something has actually been said to a third party (so your example is a bit wrong, defamation and libel is for cases where you say “hey Bob, I hear Alice cheated on her husband,” and actually you knew she didn’t.
What isn’t on the plaintiff is proving that the comments were unreasonable as commentary, made with no regard to the truth, or that the defendant knew they were a lie. These are necessary elements of defamation and should allow for a reasonable defense, that our law doesn’t require, hence why we so frequently have politicians suing and being sued under that law.
not at all, even it it was intended as a joke, he did write what can easily be classed as “racism” holding people accountable for racism is not frivolous, you may laugh it off, “oh, it was a joke!” but others point to it and say, hey look bob thinks like this so its ok for us too. Subtle intentions are hard to define in print, Bob may think its a joke, NPR might have printed it as a joke but people will not see it as a joke, there’s even a term for it now “casual racism”
– From racism “it stops with me campaign” “In many cases people do not recognise their words and deeds are racist. It’s simply seen as part of New Zealand culture to ‘take the piss’ out of people. I don’t see that casual racism, via ignorant commentary or jokes, is acceptable. People who perceive they have the right and luxury to engage in racist practices do not understand that they are adding to a lifetime of injury for those who have had to navigate racism.”
By “frivolous and vexatious” I was referring to that sad old racist suing the petition organizers. I should have made my writing clearer. Sorry about that.
Here’s some more on that old boor, if you can stand it. He was throwing around threats to sue back in 2013….
Perhaps the funniest thing Sir Robert says all night—funny because he is absolutely serious—is when he utters a threat: “You all heard that, there’s a defamation suit going out next week!” and then waves his arms in angry dismissal of the whole assembly. For a more disturbing display of pathetic, even heart-rending anger, you’d have to watch Twelfth Night, with the humiliated Malvolio swearing, “I’ll be revenged on the lot o’ you!”
She used his knighthood to raise the issue of his behaviour. I do not believe she seriously thought she would get it revoked. The wider issue is what kinds of people do we appoint? Service to Business? he made a whopping great profit for himself. Great stuff but not worthy of our highest award. Now, the woman who opened that shop and raises 30+ k a year for charity…
a petition is being drafted to be submitted to Labour for revocation of his knighthood with support from sitting Mp’s and a large contingent of the public, labour needs to at least consider the issue.
This exact case aside, I almost feel like we should make things easier and lower the penalties. Defamation cases are a rich person’s sport; a way for the powerful to silence the weak, or the way for the wrong to silence the right. You need deep pockets to engage in it, and for those who *have* been wronged, but have no lawyer on speed dial, the options are limited. A good defamation trial can easily set you back the best part of $100,000.
The Harmful Digital Communications Act is a step in the right direction. But that only covers bullying (including defamation) online. We need a cross between the Harmful Digital Communications Act/Family Court/ERA in their more comparative ease of access and lesser sanctions in dealing with defamation on a much simpler level, with default redress being a public apology and correction ordered by the courts, and perhaps in extreme cases a financial award. But not the situation where right or wrong, the likes of Maihi would have to fork out tens of thousands in legal fees and then end with a settlement.
Sir Thomas Eichelbaum
Sir James Savile
Dame Denise L’Estrange-Corbet
Sir Peter Leitch
Sir Jeremiah Mateparae
Sir John Key
Sir Clive Woodward
2: Are not!
1: Are too!
2: Prove it!
“In many cases people do not recognise their words and deeds are racist. It’s simply seen as part of New Zealand culture to ‘take the piss’ out of people. I don’t see that casual racism, via ignorant commentary or jokes, is acceptable. People who perceive they have the right and luxury to engage in racist practices do not understand that they are adding to a lifetime of injury for those who have had to navigate racism.”