Well Morrissey, there’s this thing called research. I have access to a large university library and then there’s this crazy new invention called the “Internet” that all the kids are raving about. Also I know a few Cubans (admittedly expats, but there are reasons for that) and speak Spanish. But what would I know, eh? It would be so much easier to pontificate out of my arse like a lot of commentators on here.
Oh noes! Someone snaked at me tit-for-tat on the Internet because I hold a different opinion to them and they haven’t got anything else relevant to say. Mercy me! Waaaaaaah!
Morrisey, I’m glib (which is hardly unusual on here) because some of the opinions on here are so extreme as to be impossible to take seriously (defending Castro for any reason is just such an instance), and I at least take the trouble to cite references for the more challenging opinions I hold as a courtesy, whereas all too often the common reaction on here is that anything contrary to capitalism, the United States, or the National Party, must somehow be a good thing. It ain’t necessarily so, but the casuistry attempted to justify it is often amusing.
Well you can’t be Debra Evanson, because she’s dead, so unless you are Pedro Freyre of Columbia University’s law department, or David Abraham or the school of law at Miami University, or similar authority on Cuban law, I doubt you are in any position to judge.
I’m judging solely on your own admissions in this very thread, Pop.
For instance according to what you yourself has said, torture camps don’t count against a country’s human rights record if they’re illegally sited on militarily occupied ground in another country, capital punishment doesn’t count against a country’s human rights record if it only occurs in half of the jurisdictions in the country.
I’m quite confident of my qualification to judge you on the basis of those cretinous, evasive, weasely statements, thanks.
For instance according to what you yourself has said, torture camps don’t count against a country’s human rights record if they’re illegally sited on militarily occupied ground in another country, capital punishment doesn’t count against a country’s human rights record if it only occurs in half of the jurisdictions in the country. I’m quite confident of my qualification to judge you on the basis of those cretinous, evasive, weasely statements, thanks.
Felix, if you can get that from me saying that I think it should be closed down immediately, I can only assume you are insane or smoking P.
While I don’t condone capital punishment, I would point out that the vast majority of those executed were found guilty of homicide-related crimes, and the bulk of executions are confined to one or two wackjob southern states.
Felix read you right. Sounds like you’re condoning capital punishment to me too mate.
Morrisey, I’m glib (which is hardly unusual on here) because some of the opinions on here are so extreme as to be impossible to take seriously (defending Castro for any reason is just such an instance), and I at least take the trouble to cite references for the more challenging opinions I hold as a courtesy
Sorry, my friend, I was overheated and recklessly quick with the rejoinders. I can see you’re not as foolish or as thoughtless as I said you were. I’ll try to be calmer in future when I see your contributions.
election of delegates to the Municipal Assembly, and election of deputies to the Provincial and National Assemblies.
Candidates for municipal assemblies are nominated on an individual basis at local levels by the local population at nomination assemblies.[6] Candidates for provincial assemblies and the National Assembly are nominated by the municipal assemblies from lists compiled by national, provincial and municipal candidacy commissions.[6] Anyone older than 16 other than those mentally incapacitated, imprisoned, or deprived of their political rights can vote and be nominated to these posts.
Sounds reasonably free to me.
Article 88(h) of the Cuban constitution, adopted in 1976, provides for citizen proposals of law, prerequisite that the proposal be made by at least 10 000 citizens who are eligible to vote.
Might even be more democratic than the representative democracies that we’re used to.
Riiiiight. And that chap in charge… The one who makes all the decisions… El Presidente for life…. What’s his name…. Oh, that’s right, FIDEL FRACKING CASTRO! Except he’s frail, so the VP, HIS FRACKING BROTHER is running things. That’s perfectly democratic then. We should immediately adopt the same system.
P1′s got a real bee in his bonnet about that tiny small country. I wonder why.
Probably because I am utterly flummoxed as to how an apparently thinking person can be so ideologically blinkered as to get all warm and fuzzy about a dictatorship with a diabolical human rights record. Are you going to accuse me of being a CIA plant again? That was fun.
well you definitely have the anti-Castro bee in your bonnet. Let it go mate, Bay of Pigs was a long time ago. For all your concern about humane, civilised countries and humane, civilised justice systems you sure pick funny role models.
Food is there, health care and education, denied many in USA, dictated by wealth factors, even worse in much of latin america, I know what I am talking about, mate! Cuba surely is lacking and no paradise, but it was the sabotage by the western, supposedly “free enterprise” economies that were happy to see “the wall” come down in Europe and elsewhere, but what have they replaced to societies there with?
They were malfunctioning, but now rich and poor divide is the worst it has ever been in those countries, what a bloody achievement. Add corruption, bankruptcy and more, so what has your fucked, favoured system achieve “pupuluxurious” mood and mindset?
Suck my balls. US (not the rest of the west actually) embargoes have little to do with Cuba’s shit human rights record http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/cuba
Ask P1 how many people the USA has executed in its justice system in the last 10 years, compared to Cuba. And how many foreigners the USA has summarily executed with drone attacks over the last 10 years. Judge jury and executioner with no right of defence nor appeal.
Would you like me to compare it on a per capita with how many Cubans got sent for “re-education” in work camps for such crimes as disagreeing with the regime or trying to leave?
Sure. But that’s incarceration and forced labour you are talking about (which the US does too btw). Not sanctioned killing of dozens of your own citizens a year like the US does. Like you prefer.
First of all you are generalising about the whole US – it’s a federation of states and quite a few of those states don’t have death penalties: Alaska, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Mexico, and the District of Columbia don’t have death penalties. The overwhelming majority of those executed were charged homicide-related crime. I think comparisons are a bit of a stretch. I don’t condone capital punishment, I think there are outrageous abuses in Arizona and Texas and I don’t think they should be executing the mentally retarded, but it is all done within the rule of law.
You live the Batista kind of rule do ya? Casinos, prostitution, slavery and beggars in the streets, right, that is where NZ will perhaps end with another casino operator friend like Key! We are already seeing the first signs of it. F that kind of shit society. We should deport all wealth travellers that do not commit to invest for longer term and the future here, get rid of bludgers of the wrong kind, Id say.
Are you really that stupid? Batista is a horrible corrupt shit =/= Castro is a misjudged saint. Yes, lets attack the tourists – how important is that to our economy again? Fuck you are a moron.
Natalie Cardone sings about “par platar de bandeira”, I wonder is this legal or not here in NZ? It is where I come from. So maybe ask how “free” NZ really is. I have some worries and concerns. I see this video solely in a “historic” and “cultural” context, that must at least be as acceptable as the “anti Mohammed” video going around:
Don’t be an arse – you can say whatever you like provided you are not inciting hatred or trying to provoke violence. Why don’t you ask someone who lived in a police state how free New Zealand is?
NZ is “free”? Hah, what a joke that is! Free for freeloaders, money speculators, ruthless investors syphoning off profits with no regard, not committing themselves for living here and actually doing the work that is needed to get a country going. F Off, I come from a country where revolution is part of history, where also people dedicate t o work and share, and where progressive ideas are the norm. That is not your country’s goal, as too many idiots vote in bastards that just suck the blood of the country and have no bloody plan, like John f ing Key no hoper, what a hopeless country this has become under that rule!
Before your rant will get out of hand: I will NOT disclose my native heritage, as that will only be an invitation for your continued racist and class rant, which I resolutely deny you as a conscientious human being seeking equal and fair rights to all, whatever colour, race, religion and more. So I am sorry, I am going to frustrate from the very outset your already detectable attempts of an attack on me and others. Populuxe, sometimes you contribute, although rarely, but you have to learn the fair play of the game, thank you and have a very good night. I believe in a fair, social and progressive society, that may not be Cuban style, but at least is social democratic. So we split on that term. Good night.
Before your rant will get out of hand: I will NOT disclose my native heritage, as that will only be an invitation for your continued racist and class rant, which I resolutely deny you as a conscientious human being seeking equal and fair rights to all, whatever colour, race, religion and more.
Then you are in no position to criticise my country’s freedoms because obviously you are so insecure about those of wherever you’re from that you refuce to disclose your country of origin. My psychic senses suggest Venezuela for some reason. Ethnicity has very little to do with governance (hello Nazi Germany!), so you can shove the racism accusation.
So I am sorry, I am going to frustrate from the very outset your already detectable attempts of an attack on me and others. Populuxe, sometimes you contribute, although rarely, but you have to learn the fair play of the game, thank you and have a very good night. I believe in a fair, social and progressive society, that may not be Cuban style, but at least is social democratic. So we split on that term. Good night.
Fair play does not, ipso facto, mean that I have to be patient when people spout nonsense or misinformation. The right to loudly tell people they are talking crap is part of our national heritage as a democracy with the freedom of speech.
Popaluxurius: I enjoy your rants every time, they are really entertaining, never letting me down, so get on with it, have a great time and indulge in whatever you wish to entertain yourself with.
I love NZ for some reasons, but I also reserve my right as a logn term resident to be critical, thank you so much.
Populoxe and others, Latin America is a musical treasure land, and when you rubbish Cuba, that is just one cheap crap shot at a region with immense cultural and other significance. There is more bloody cultural activity there than ever happened in Aoteaoroa NZ for the las 200 years, I am afraid.
I suggest just a brief impression on some common popular music clips covering music of the last two decades or so:
This is a scratch on the bloody surface, as you seem to think anglo saxon cuture rules the bloody world. You are misled. You are now the bloody MINORITY in culural affairs on the planet. Wake up to reality, thanks. We welcome you!
(1) I have nothing against Latin America, it’s a vibrant place rich in culture and full of lovely wonderful people. In terms of governance, however, it leaves much to be desired. (2) Trying to insult my country’s heritage really does you no credit. I would point out that Maori arrived in New Zealand in around 1300 CE and that the European settlers brought their own fully developed cultures with them, which formed the basis of Pakeha culture – and quite frankly it’s pretty rich and interesting and has produced individuals of world significance. (3) For much of its history from the late nineteenth to the mid-twentieth century, New Zealand was the widely admired model of liberal social reform for the world. We know what we’ve lost, however we had it in the first place and can hopefully construct it again. New Zealand has also lacked for dictators and military juntas. I don’t think on either point Latin America can compare.
It is an insult to Maori and Polynesian people to be told that they did not arrive before 13 hundred AC or so in this country, as the earlier traces go back to at leat 400 AC.
Also is it now proved that NZ was largely populated through eastern polynesia, which was having contact to high civilisations in South and Central America well before Christ was ever born or accounted for. So stick your Anglo Saxon and Euro Centric cultural obsession up where the sun never shines, because you have no idea how diverse and long other cultures have ever existed. Easter Island, Marquesan Islands, Society Islands, Cook Islands and so forth, resembling great similarities to ancient cultures in South America by the way. Only brainwashed, selective culturalists ignore realities proved decades ago by Thor Heyerdahl and also other scientists, even genetic evidence exists. Where do Kumara, Umu and the like come from? The same words and products have 2 to 3 thousand year history in South America, dear Pupucapetl wannabe never gettabe. Learn history please.
You really are a sad little person. Polynesians arrived in New Zealand in waves, but permanent habitation by the group that came to be Maori dates to around 1300, give or take a century. http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/12/22/1015876108.full.pdf+html Where did you get the impression I didn’t agree with elements of Heyerdahl’s hypothesis, you silly little person, contact between Polynesia and South America been proved by genetic testing, however his theory that Polynesians came from South America is crap as the linguistic evidence shows that Pacific migration came from east to west. Do you have a point, or are you just an annoying idiot?
Populuxe1: I really like you, just for the sake of adding spice to this forum! That is great at all times, we need it, want it and are never shy of it, right!
Get a life and be a bit more kind to others, because hate and envy is the worst of enemies.
I am sure we can all learn from each other, provided “we” want to!
Felix, if you can get that from me saying that I think it should be closed down immediately, I can only assume you are insane or smoking P.
To quote you, CV: “whatever.”
No, they just let the horrific conditions of their prisons and medical neglect do it for them..
Child Mortality (XLS) seems to be comparable to NZ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
Probably because I am utterly flummoxed as to how an apparently thinking person can be so ideologically blinkered as to get all warm and fuzzy about a dictatorship with a diabolical human rights record.
Are you going to accuse me of being a CIA plant again? That was fun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba
https://www.hrw.org/americas/cuba
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/americas/cuba
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thor-halvorssen/testimony-at-the-united-n_b_1635544.html
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2010/wha/154501.htm
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/cuba
Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Mexico, and the District of Columbia don’t have death penalties. The overwhelming majority of those executed were charged homicide-related crime. I think comparisons are a bit of a stretch. I don’t condone capital punishment, I think there are outrageous abuses in Arizona and Texas and I don’t think they should be executing the mentally retarded, but it is all done within the rule of law.
Batista is a horrible corrupt shit =/= Castro is a misjudged saint.
Yes, lets attack the tourists – how important is that to our economy again?
Fuck you are a moron.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmK9GylXRh0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB6Cpy-X7A8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkzwNOTkGOs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dhn5zUjR-0&feature=related
(2) Trying to insult my country’s heritage really does you no credit. I would point out that Maori arrived in New Zealand in around 1300 CE and that the European settlers brought their own fully developed cultures with them, which formed the basis of Pakeha culture – and quite frankly it’s pretty rich and interesting and has produced individuals of world significance.
(3) For much of its history from the late nineteenth to the mid-twentieth century, New Zealand was the widely admired model of liberal social reform for the world. We know what we’ve lost, however we had it in the first place and can hopefully construct it again. New Zealand has also lacked for dictators and military juntas. I don’t think on either point Latin America can compare.
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/12/22/1015876108.full.pdf+html
Where did you get the impression I didn’t agree with elements of Heyerdahl’s hypothesis, you silly little person, contact between Polynesia and South America been proved by genetic testing, however his theory that Polynesians came from South America is crap as the linguistic evidence shows that Pacific migration came from east to west.
Do you have a point, or are you just an annoying idiot?