“Soon, even the notion that Israel is democratic for Jews will be gone.” Gideon Levy at Mt Eden War Memorial Hall, Dominion Road Sunday 3 December 2017, 3 p.m. (Part 2 of 2)
Questions from the floor.
Question No. 1: The international campaign for Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions against Israel: is it working? GIDEON LEVY: Boycott is a legitimate strategy. Israel is forever pressing countries to boycott Iran and Hamas. People boycott butchers, and refuse to buy goods made in sweatshops. No one can claim that boycott is wrong. Many people won’t buy stolen goods—and anything made in the Occupied Territories is a stolen product. Boycott and sanction were very effective strategies against the South African apartheid state. The aggression towards BDS by the Jewish establishment convinces me that it’s the right tool. Psychologically, it’s having an increasing impact. There have been bills to criminalize BDS in the United States and Europe. This is unacceptable. It shows how weak the Israeli argument is if they have to prosecute people of conscience who want to boycott Israel. By the way, I am violating Israeli law right now—it’s going to be seven years’ jail for expressing support for BDS. We need to make Israel, and every Israeli, accountable.
Question No. 2: Are you tired and defeated in your attitude to the two-state solution? GIDEON LEVY: You need to prove that the two-state solution is viable, and show how to evacuate the 700,000 settlers. Soon that number will be one million. Whenever I mention President Trump, people start to laugh—(LAUGHTER). Trump said, “I don’t mind whether it’s one state or two states.” I don’t think he knew what he was talking about.
Question No. 3: New Zealand is in the throes of privatization brought about by social engineering. The incarceration rate in New Zealand—- (At this point the questioner was cut off, for allegedly being off topic. I think Gideon was going to answer him, but the organisers insisted on moving things along to the next question.)
Question No. 4: How can we learn from the Maori? GIDEON LEVY: I visited South Africa three times, and tremendous things happened there. This inspires me: the one state solution can be implemented. If New Zealanders can live together, we can live together with the Palestinians. —(APPLAUSE)— There will still be struggles about rights, et cetera, but it can be done.
Question No. 5: Gideon, you’ve been called “the most hated man in Israel.” Do you suffer from Shin Bet surveillance, in the way that Donald Woods was spied on in South Africa? GIDEON LEVY: It was the Independent that called me the most hated man in Israel. However, I am not the story. Yes, there have been some physical attacks. But we are still a liberal democracy for Jewish citizens. I was arrested once for entering the West Bank. My car was shot once, and we counted nine bullet marks. It was an armor-plated car, however. The Israeli regime is aiming now at NGOs and the Supreme Court. Their next target will be the media.
Question No. 6: What can you tell us about the Knesset bill to ban the police filing corruption charges against any government officials? …..
He’s one of Israel’s most respected journalists, Cap’n. He’s been shot at and imprisoned for telling the truth, so I don’t think he’d mind your labeling him an idiot.
Wayne Mapp
I bet he is not one of Israel’s most respected journalists. He is so far on the fringe that virtually no-one in Israel would give him the time of day. Instead he tours the world talking to left-wing audiences and stirring up hatred against Israel.
The record of his presentation at the public meeting (fully set out on the Standard where I am now banned) completely shows his position. Everyone at the meeting would be more than happy to declare Israel an apartheid state. A large number of them would not even support the existence of Israel.
I supported the NZ stance on the UN resolution about settlements, but he is miles beyond that resolution.
Basically the great majority of the left have become so extreme about Israel, that everyone on the right knows that their default position has to be to support Israel.
Nostradamus
Wayne:
the Standard where I am now banned
I’m curious: who banned you and why? (You’d think The Standard bloggers would appreciate input from a former MP even if he’s not on “their side”.)
“The settlements are a brutal violation of international law. Some will try to make your government’s brave leadership in this matter an international scandal. The United States did not veto the Resolution because Obama felt guilty after eight years of doing nothing. So don’t let your politicians do the wrong thing; you know more than they do.” —Gideon Levy, Mt Eden, 3 December 2017
Most of the posters here I can make allowances for: they may not understand or not know much about the situation in the Occupied Territories, and have all their lives been bombarded in the media and even in the education system with messages about Israel and Palestine that are inaccurate, incomplete and misleading at best, and completely dishonest and cynical disinformation at worst. I am therefore not surprised that many people here, and indeed at the Standard, side automatically with Israel.
I have, however, been pleasantly surprised to see that even some of the most seemingly hard-nosed and truculent commentators here do in fact show a willingness to consider contrary views by scholars and are prepared to modify some of their extreme views when confronted with evidence. One prominent Kiwiblogger told me last week that “just to be fair”, he had read a Noam Chomsky article I posted about the Israel-Palestine conflict. He took issue with some of it, and said so plainly. That’s fine, and it shows a considerable degree of seriousness and respect.
Wayne Mapp, on the other hand, is a former government minister, and one would assume that he displayed at least a modicum of seriousness and rigour in his views. Yet here he is denouncing an Israeli journalist, who is without doubt one of Israel’s and indeed the world’s bravest and most renowned men, and claiming that he “stirs up hatred against Israel.”
Anyone who was at Gideon Levy’s talk, and anyone who has read or listened to him at all, would know immediately that Dr. Mapp’s words are asinine, fraudulent, and not worth a Zimbabwean million dollar note.
One thing about former politicians is that they often ditch the carapace of partisanship they have borne for decades. People like Jenny Shipley, Jim Bolger, Helen Clark, Mike Moore, even Rodney Hide and Heather Roy have notably become kinder and more reasonable people since leaving parliament. They are even prepared to acknowledge that some of the things they did when in power were detrimental to the public good.
It seems, however, that Dr. Mapp has eschewed the role of respected elder statesman and instead decided to enter that grim twilight world inhabited by the likes of another old grotesque, his former boss Dr. Don Brash. His lies about this Israeli truth-teller are par for the course, unfortunately….
anyone who has read or listened to him at all, would know immediately that Dr. Mapp’s words are asinine, fraudulent, and not worth a Zimbabwean million dollar note
There’s a fine line between disagreeing with someone and implying that they have improper motives.
I could be persuaded that “asinine” and “not worth a Zimbabwean million dollar note” fall into the agree-to-disagree category. But “fraudulent” is inappropriate, Morrissey, particularly when you apply that description to someone who has a public profile and comments under his real name.
Come on – surely you’re better than that!
Morrissey
Nostradamus, I’m sorry to say that Dr. Mapp’s statements about Gideon Levy are false. They are not merely false statements in the sense of being mistaken, they are maliciously false statements.
That he is a former Minister of the Crown only makes those malicious false statements more reprehensible.
Nostradamus
Ok Morrissey. Could you please assist me by analysing Wayne’s comment above and (by reference to his specific words) indicate which statements you disagree with; then (by reference to reputable online sources) indicate why you think those statements are “maliciously false”? And is there anything that Wayne’s said that you agree with? I’m interested to see what you’ve got.
alwyn
What I find rather funny, and I hope you see it the same way is that you have been banned for something you never did. You have been subjected to a long rant by Lynn about having attributed comments to “The Standard” as in a computer. You don’t seem to have done it. You only talked about opinions that were posted on the blog. Clearly Mr Prentice didn’t read what you said. He simply needed to have a rant and to hell with whether it was accurate or not. I, as someone who is fairly regularly banned on the same blog, thought he had improved. He seemed quite happy to abuse me but he restrained himself from actually banning me. The one who really did go nuts was someone who posts as Weka. She would get her knickers in a knot if I said anything about her beloved Green Party. YOU’RE BANNED was the normal reaction. Anyway, if you are really a sucker for punishment your ban there should be up in about 10 days. Please go back. There needs to be a few rational comments on that site.
tom hunter
Come on [Morrissey]– surely you’re better than that! – [Keeping Stock]
Morrissey Breen. Just Fuck Off. The googling of your name tells the world all we need to know about you, .
Wayne Mapp
Morrissey I read the full post on The Standard about Gideon Levy’s presentation. He specifically said Israel is an apartheid state. Therefore I am not wrong in what I said about him. You seem offended by the fact that people defend Israel and dare to criticise anyone who has a contrary view. It is hardly unusual to suggest Mr Levy is a controversial figure in Israel. And as for my overall balance go and read my Spinoff articles
Well, Well. well. the Sunday Star Times has sunk to a new low with a 4 page spread on Jacinda’s fashion sense (what? you say) Yep, believe it or not someone thinks she’s a style icon. It is vomitous to say the least. I’d be just happy if she knew how to run a country.
Morrissey
Gideon Levy at Mt Eden War Memorial Hall, Dominion Road
Sunday 3 December 2017, 3 p.m. (Part 2 of 2)
GIDEON LEVY: Boycott is a legitimate strategy. Israel is forever pressing countries to boycott Iran and Hamas. People boycott butchers, and refuse to buy goods made in sweatshops. No one can claim that boycott is wrong. Many people won’t buy stolen goods—and anything made in the Occupied Territories is a stolen product. Boycott and sanction were very effective strategies against the South African apartheid state. The aggression towards BDS by the Jewish establishment convinces me that it’s the right tool. Psychologically, it’s having an increasing impact. There have been bills to criminalize BDS in the United States and Europe. This is unacceptable. It shows how weak the Israeli argument is if they have to prosecute people of conscience who want to boycott Israel. By the way, I am violating Israeli law right now—it’s going to be seven years’ jail for expressing support for BDS. We need to make Israel, and every Israeli, accountable.
GIDEON LEVY: You need to prove that the two-state solution is viable, and show how to evacuate the 700,000 settlers. Soon that number will be one million. Whenever I mention President Trump, people start to laugh—(LAUGHTER). Trump said, “I don’t mind whether it’s one state or two states.” I don’t think he knew what he was talking about.
(At this point the questioner was cut off, for allegedly being off topic. I think Gideon was going to answer him, but the organisers insisted on moving things along to the next question.)
GIDEON LEVY: I visited South Africa three times, and tremendous things happened there. This inspires me: the one state solution can be implemented. If New Zealanders can live together, we can live together with the Palestinians. —(APPLAUSE)— There will still be struggles about rights, et cetera, but it can be done.
GIDEON LEVY: It was the Independent that called me the most hated man in Israel. However, I am not the story. Yes, there have been some physical attacks. But we are still a liberal democracy for Jewish citizens. I was arrested once for entering the West Bank. My car was shot once, and we counted nine bullet marks. It was an armor-plated car, however. The Israeli regime is aiming now at NGOs and the Supreme Court. Their next target will be the media.
http://morrisseybreen.blogspot.co.nz/2017/12/soon-even-notion-that-israel-is.html
Captain Mainwaring
Morrissey
Wayne Mapp
Nostradamus
Morrissey
Nostradamus
Morrissey
Nostradamus
alwyn
You have been subjected to a long rant by Lynn about having attributed comments to “The Standard” as in a computer. You don’t seem to have done it. You only talked about opinions that were posted on the blog.
Clearly Mr Prentice didn’t read what you said. He simply needed to have a rant and to hell with whether it was accurate or not.
I, as someone who is fairly regularly banned on the same blog, thought he had improved. He seemed quite happy to abuse me but he restrained himself from actually banning me. The one who really did go nuts was someone who posts as Weka. She would get her knickers in a knot if I said anything about her beloved Green Party. YOU’RE BANNED was the normal reaction.
Anyway, if you are really a sucker for punishment your ban there should be up in about 10 days.
Please go back. There needs to be a few rational comments on that site.
tom hunter
stigie
Morrissey
Captain Mainwaring
Just Fuck Off.
The googling of your name tells the world all we need to know about you, .
Wayne Mapp
I read the full post on The Standard about Gideon Levy’s presentation. He specifically said Israel is an apartheid state. Therefore I am not wrong in what I said about him.
You seem offended by the fact that people defend Israel and dare to criticise anyone who has a contrary view. It is hardly unusual to suggest Mr Levy is a controversial figure in Israel.
And as for my overall balance go and read my Spinoff articles
backster
Morrissey
lifesgood