phillip ure4.1
“..unctuously..”..?..or an exercise in irony..?..(and is that your ‘reading’..?..)..’cos going on stewarts’ past-form....i wd plump for the latter.Morrissey4.1.1
He was absolutely sincere about it. It was a teary-eyed homily after the Charlie Hebdokillings.He did and said nothing similar after Israel targeted and killed journalists in Gaza last July.- yeah..?..u sure..?..it has echoes of sth park....how about giving us the link..?..so we can judge for ourselves..
- Here you go, phillip—American “liberal” hypocrisy at its most ignorant and galling.Note that the intro. to this clip claims that Stewart “opened his normally comedicDaily Show Wednesday night with somber words of support for the victims in the assault on Charlie Hebdo….
- morrissy....is stewart not referring to the international cadre of journalists....as ‘team civilisation’..?..not america and its’ allies as ‘team civilisation’....as u claim..?
- Even if he was referring just to the “international cadre of journalists”, describing that collection of sycophants, propagandists and war-mongers as Team Civilization would make even less sense than if he had meant the Western world in general.It’s as absurd and insulting to our intelligence as the regular sight of Pentagon stooges talking about the victims of some bombing as “the bad guys”.
- morrissey..you stated that stewart said that america and their allies were ‘team civilisation’....that is completely and utterly untrue....and i am astounded you made such a ‘reading’ from what stewart said...and shouldn’t you apologise to the readers here for misleading them/mis-representing stewart..?..and why the fuck am i having to factcheck u all the time..?,,why are u so fucken sloppy with yr facts..?,.how do u think it can help yr credibility in any way to do that..?“..It is absurd and insulting to our intelligence..”
- He said it. Watch the video. What should I apologise for, exactly?
- “.. Jon Stewart, who a few weeks ago unctuously referred to the United States and its allies as “Team Civilization”..”
- Jon Stewart, who a few weeks ago unctuously referred to the United States and its allies as “Team Civilization”.He did. His style was intimate, warm, compassionate. If he had had the strength of character and the intelligence to simply condemn the killings, and express support for the dead cartoonists and the policemen, that would have been a decent, serious statement.But he didn’t simply do that. Instead, he went on to talk of “Team Civilization”, as though the West is enlightened and democratic and civilized, as opposed to the frightening savages out of Africa and the Middle East.For argument’s sake, let’s concede your point that he was talking specifically about the “international cadre of journalists”: if he was, that would be even more of an indefensible thing to say. The corporate media—from the BBC to Fox News to their parrots at TVNZ—are crucial components of the propaganda system. If Stewart is stupid and depraved enough to be confused about that, you should not be so gallant as to try to spin his stupidity and depravity into something else.Seventy years ago, the likes of Stewart were condemning, with an eye to those in power, the killers of another racist journalist, Julius Streicher.
Bill…
I’d have thought the bigger point was his declaration to the effect that it was not our business to make sense of it because there was no sense to it.That’s a very fucked approach to what was a very easily understood event.- I’d have thought the bigger point was his declaration to the effect that it was not our business to make sense of it because there was no sense to it. That’s a very fucked approach to what was a very easily understood event.Very well said, Bill. Here’s Norman Finkelstein addressing this ridiculous idea that atrocities are mystical and beyond analysis….
McFlock4.1.1.2
I took it as a wider team than “America and its allies”.
It looked to me like a comedian was reflecting upon people who will kill other peoplebecause of comedy, and referring to folks who do not shoot other people over comedy as “team civilization”.Just a thought.
nadis4.2
Who are the journalists imprisoned in the USA and UK?- Jesus H. Christ, are you SERIOUS?
- well yes, I am – only because I don’t know. If you want to abuse people because they ask an honest question then that points to some serious character flaws.How about this:I apologise for asking you a polite question about a topic I don’t know much about, but one on which you claim to be an expert. I even googled what appears to be an impartial source and helpfully posted that link in order to facilitate a mature dialog with you. Turns out in fact you are an arrogant fuckwit.
Colonial Rawshark4.2.1.1.1
Sami al-Hajj was an innocent Al Jazeera cameraman that the US Government detained for years at Guantanmo Bay with no charges laid.The US tends to more target whistleblowers (Thomas Drake, Bill Binney, Chelsea Manning, John Kiriaku) and journalist-type individuals (Julian Assange) for harassment, charges and imprisonment.Having said that if you look at the map and identify those nations which the USA explicitly supports with funding and arms:Bahrain 6
Egypt 12
Israel and Occupied Territories 4 (Israel also killed several journalists last year)
Saudi Arabia 4In the USA if you drift out too far from the editorial line you simply get your ass fired and become unemployable as opposed to imprisoned (eg Nasr, Clancy).- also just been reading about barrett brown – good summary here:technically he’s been sentenced for 3 charges – accessory after the fact to a crime and helping the perpertrators evade prosecution, obstructing justice, and threatening to kill an FBI agent. He’s just pleaded guilty to those.Another source of journalist tracking:
- The US justice system has gone down the road of negotiating plea bargains form their targets, which means that the cases and evidence never see a jury or a judge.Essentially they say to the target – you plead guilty to this and this, and we’ll put you away for three or four years. Or we’ll go after you with these other charges, and you will go away for 30 or 35 years.
- Sorry, nadis, I shouldn’t have jumped at you like that. I (wrongly) assumed that you were playing the Te Reo Putake game of stonewalling and asserting that black is white and up is down.I appreciate you are genuine in trying to find out more about this, but the “Committee to Protect Journalists” is about as reliable as Fox News—which is one of its “corporate media donors” along with the Associated Press, CNBC, and CNN. The CPJ has close ties to extreme right wing Cuban “exile” terrorist groups in Miami and New York.Like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, the CPJ is a suspect and deeply compromised organisation.
Te Reo Putake4.2.1.1.2.1
Fuck me, what a load of shit. The CPJ is highly respected, has a long and proud record of campaigning for journalists and indeed, saving the lives of many who have been imprisoned. Y’know, real journalists, not the imaginery ones in your head, Moz.Have a read and feel ashamed at your dismal effort at slandering them:- From your (sadly for you) very useful link….Funding
According to the organization’s 2011 Annual Report, financial supporters include individuals, corporations, and foundations. The report does not include details on the largest financial supporters. Corporate media donors include the Associated Press, CNBC, CNN and Fox News.“Highly respected”, indeed. Not highly respected by real journalists and people who bother to read more than the Grauniad and the Daily Mail, but “highly respected” by certain “corporate media donors”.- So fucken what. They are staunchly independant, do good work and save lives. You … not so much.
- So fucken what.Excellent! A first rate response to being exposed. Possibly the funniest and most bewildered “So what” since Garth George was similarly confronted by Jon Stephenson……
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO1012/S00457/journalists-clash-on-media7-over-war-reporting.htmThey are staunchly independant, [sic] do good work and save lives.They are funded by a retinue of establishment pillars, including Fox News and extreme right wing Cubans. Their “surveys” are selective and partisan, just like you would expect from a “Committee” funded by Fox News and extreme right wing Cubans.But please, go ahead and call the CPJ “independant”. It’s your (paper thin) credibility that’s on the line when you back such partisan sources.You … not so much.Okay, sling off at me if you want. After that, have a listen to Jeremy Scahill, who is definitely NOT the kind of American journalist who endorses Fox News and extreme right wing Cuban terrorists…..
- Cheers, nadis. I was wondering the same thing myself.
- As you know perfectly well, they are pursuing Julian Assange and Edward Snowdenwith implacable ferocity; Assange is currently in asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy in London, and Snowden has found refuge in Russia.Yes, I guess you could quibble and claim that Snowden is not a credentialed journalist in the way that such outstanding practitioners of the craft as John Roughan and Fran O’Sullivan are credentialed, but the fact remains: if you speak the truth and reveal what the Government is trying to hide from its citizens in the United States, you can expect massive retaliation from the criminals you expose.Have you ever heard of James Risen? Thought not……
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/06/us/james-risen-in-tense-testimony-refuses-to-offer-clues-on-sources.html?_r=0- It’s not a quibble to point out that neither man is a journalist and neither man is locked up in the USA or the UK. If you have the names of journalists who are imprisoned up in those countries, please feel free to post them. If there are any then they need to have their cases publicised. Telling us their names would be a great start.
- It’s not a quibble, it’s a lie. But obviously your mind is made up.If Assange is not a journalist, then neither is James Risen. I note that you did not even bother to mention Risen’s case.Of course, this is the “non-journalism” that compels the U.S. government and its legion of unpaid hounds to bay after Assange….
- BZZZZT! Wrong answer. We were looking for journalists imprisoned in the US or UK, that’s journalists imprisoned in the US or UK. Next contestant please. For ten pounds, can you tell me what is wrong with Moz? I’ll repeat the question: what is wrong with Moz? You may confer with your teammates or phone a friend.
- I appreciate the levity, Te Reo, but you haven’t done anything to answer the challenge: what about James Risen?Just so you get on with that task, we’ll pretend for a moment that Assange, Snowden and Manning are not in asylum, exile or prison for their role in exposing momentous crimes.
- BZZZZT! We were looking for journalists imprisoned in the US or UK. Contestant, you have answered James Risen who is … (checks notes) … not imprisoned in the US or UK. No points. Do any of the other contestants know the names of journalists imprisoned in the US or UK? Take your time …
- What’s your point? The US doesn’t officially torture people within its own borders either. It subcontracts it overseas.
- Well actually I have, and it turns out he isn’t imprisoned nor is he in jail which tends to invalidate the main thrust of your rant. In fact in the story you linked there is this:“Mr. Holder pledged not to send reporters to jail, which would normally be the consequence of refusing to testify in a case like Mr. Sterling’s. Then, he indicated that he would not force Mr. Risen to reveal his sources, but would instead force Mr. Risen only to reveal limited information that he had already acknowledged.”So not only has not been in jail, isn’t currently in jail, the US Attorney General has ruled out putting him in jail.Right – I see your point exactly.I have mixed views on Snowden and Assange. The bulk of what they released should not have been. The evidence of crime (i.e., Chelsea Manning’s helicopter video) – no problem, but stuff which endangers people or hinders legitimate law enforcement I’m less supportive of.And on this:“if you speak the truth and reveal what the Government is trying to hide from its citizens in the United States, you can expect massive retaliation from the criminals you expose.”Are you equally as strident about the worse behaviour of Russia, China, Turkey, Iran etc? Last time I checked the US government wasn’t sanctioning extra-judicial murder of domestic critics.So despite your bold claim“He also spoke about journalists who are locked up “in Saudi Arabia, Russia and China”—carefully not mentioning the United States or Great Britain.”you cant come up with a single example?
- Are you equally as strident about the worse [sic] behaviour of Russia, China, Turkey, Iran etc? Last time I checked the US government wasn’t sanctioning extra-judicial murder of domestic critics.With the odd exception, my government does not usually support the crimes of Russia, China, Turkey, Iran, etc. It routinely does so for the crimes of the United States and the United Kingdom.You speak confidently about Snowden and Assange exposing “stuff which endangers people or hinders legitimate law enforcement.” What evidence do you have that they did that? I’d be intrigued if you put it up on this site for us, because neither the U.S. nor U.K. government could manage to do so.I am as opposed to state power being abused in Russia, China, Turkey and Iran as I am to it being abused in Australia and New Zealand. Are YOU?
- Yes.Can you please focus on providing evidence for your earlier (mis)-assertions, otherwise people will continue to believe you are a flake. Just trying to help you out.
- Just trying to help you out.That remark was a bit snide and unfunny. Hmmmm….Okay! Stop the play-acting, Te Reo! Your “nadis” persona is as irritating as it is dopey.
- I can assure I am not TRP. Are you are going to back up your earlier (mis)-assertions or not?
- I knew that. I was trying to annoy Te Reo.
- Riiiight. Well spotted, Moz, two different people asking the same simple question* must be evidence of either a conspiracy or a Vulcan mind meld.*and that question was ‘which journalists are imprisoned in the US and UK ‘ as you claimed. Answer came there none.
- Here’s one. Don’t be put off by the fact he looks like Moss from The IT Crowd….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Wolf_(journalist)But, yes, you’re both right—journalists can usually speak out without fear in the United States. Thank the radicals and liberals who framed the Constitution for that.However, constitutional and legal protections can only go so far—when governments bring their powers to bear on an individual truth-teller, they will tear down the protections if they can get away with it, including such troublesome notions as legal sanctuary and asylum. Some in the Cameron regime even suggested storming the Ecuadorian embassy to get their hooks on Assange. - I guess that’s as close as we’re going to get to you acknowledging your mistake, Moz. Some weasel words and a link to a court case last decade. Ah, well, the real takeaway from this discussion is that you don’t feel obliged to hold yourself up to the standards you demand of others. The Greeks probably had a word for that (though it may have been sold off to the troika by now).ps. If you’d thought about it harder, you could have resorted to pedantry by mentioning all those Murdoch employees currently doing porridge in the UK. Of course, they’re not in jail for journalism, but for actual crimes.
- lol
- I see, Te Reo, that you’ve garnered some (belated) support from one of our friends—one with a rather insalubrious record of credulity. He posted his intelligent comment at 3:46 p.m., more than four hours after everyone had gone home.Better late than never, I suppose.Or is it?
- asynchronous communication is a bitch, ain’t it?It’s almost as if this example of you making shit up in a froth-frenzy (and then wriggling around trying not to admit you fucked up) will remain as yet another permanent record of your loose relationship with reality.
Friday 2 February 2018
Kim Hill’s guest says destruction of Iraq and Afghanistan were “mistakes.” (Jan. 31, 2015)
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Maziar Bahari needs to divest himself of his smug “friends.”
Radio NZ National, Saturday 31 January 2015
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday
Northcote Point